What Does a Streamer Actually Do?

Hear Here

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I began with a Denon HEOS, then Bluesound Node, then NAD M50.2 and now my Aurender. The Aurender is in an entirely higher league when it comes to sound quality, The prior 3 are in the order of quality IMO. The Aurender was the most expensive but the improvement is some of the best money spent. I mean the Aurender is like hi fi making the rest mid-fi, in the case of he HEOS and Node not even Mid-fi.
Thanks for this comparison. It's particularly useful as I too have the NAD M50.2. However, because I have the much more recent and much more comprehensive M33, I use the latter's streamer. I've not done a careful comparision between these 2 units' sound quality when streaming.

With the Aurender, how do you control it? Is the Aurender app anywhere near as good as BluOS and is it available on Windows, iPad and Android platforms?

I have the Auralic streamers on my list of possible replacements (Altair G2.1 probably) and the Roon Nucleus. Do you have experience of these compared with your Aurender? I must say, I'm drawn to brands that take the trouble to develop their own comprehensive control apps, so NAD with BluOS, or Nucleus with Rom for example. Auralic seems a better known brand here in UK, but I could certainly look at Aurender too. Thanks. Peter
 

Mr Peabody

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Oct 9, 2022
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Aurender has their own UI called Conductor, once I learned how to use it I thought it was just as good as the BS app. But I only had BS on my phone where the Conductor app is on an iPad. I feel there is a learning curve when beginning to use any UI for the first time. There is a version of Conductor for the iPhone and Android.

I have not used Auralic personally. My friend, uses it but our systems are so different I hesitate to comment.

Are you using the built-in HD? Aurender ACS units have a ripping tray but they do not play discs. If not needing the HD then your options broaden.

Is there something about the M50.2 that moves you to want to upgrade? It may have been a synergy issue in my system and I am a picky listener. Before getting into streaming I had a Levinson 512 SACD player, my goal was to best or rival that playback. It isn't apples and oranges as I now have a different preamp/DAC but I am satisfied with the digital sound I have.

I've had my ACS10 for around 3 or so years. Being able to rip my CD's to a HD was imprtant, at the time the ACS10 was a logical unit to try after the M50.2. Once I heard the ACS10 in my system I just stopped at that point. I think now there are more options and other brands have perfected and adapted their own apps. However, nothing so far has had me to even consider replacing my ACS10.

I'm not affiliated with Aurender, I was just so happy with the performance in my system I can't help being a fanboy.

Thanks for this comparison. It's particularly useful as I too have the NAD M50.2. However, because I have the much more recent and much more comprehensive M33, I use the latter's streamer. I've not done a careful comparision between these 2 units' sound quality when streaming.

With the Aurender, how do you control it? Is the Aurender app anywhere near as good as BluOS and is it available on Windows, iPad and Android platforms?

I have the Auralic streamers on my list of possible replacements (Altair G2.1 probably) and the Roon Nucleus. Do you have experience of these compared with your Aurender? I must say, I'm drawn to brands that take the trouble to develop their own comprehensive control apps, so NAD with BluOS, or Nucleus with Rom for example. Auralic seems a better known brand here in UK, but I could certainly look at Aurender too. Thanks. Peter
 
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Ron Resnick

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Has anyone had enough experience with GUIs from different streamer manufacturers to tell us the pros and cons of each app in terms of display, intuitiveness, ease of search, etc.?

For example, what are the pros and cons of the Aurender app versus Innuos Sense? Pink Faun app versus Bluesound app?
 

Ron Resnick

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I too will be interested in hearing Ron's experience with the Pulse.

I will be getting the PULSEmini, the lowest model. At the same time I will be getting a custom LPS from Linear Tube Audio. Innuos will be offering an outboard LPS power supply for the PULSEmini, but I don’t know when that will be available, and I have no idea how it would make the PULSEmini sound in comparison to the Linear Tube Audio LPS+. I have great respect for Linear Tube Audio from its amazing sound quality per $ Ultralinear amps.

I won’t be having any other streamer to compare to the PULSEmini.
 
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Daverich4

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Has anyone had enough experience with GUIs from different streamer manufacturers to tell us the pros and cons of each app in terms of display, intuitiveness, ease of search, etc.?

For example, what are the pros and cons of the Aurender app versus Innuos Sense? Pink Faun app versus Bluesound app?
I would also be interested in which ones will play to multiple endpoints as Roon does. I have 4. Main, Headphones, House & Office and wouldn’t care to use a Streamer that couldn’t feed all four. Currently I’m using a MacMini/Roon setup.
 

RCanelas

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Has anyone had enough experience with GUIs from different streamer manufacturers to tell us the pros and cons of each app in terms of display, intuitiveness, ease of search, etc.?

For example, what are the pros and cons of the Aurender app versus Innuos Sense? Pink Faun app versus Bluesound app?

IMO, none of the usual suspects have a good user experience. They are sufferable at best (something we as audiophiles put up with a lot), if you have experienced the good UX of the streaming platforms and Roon. It is not something I can heavily complain about manufacturers that roll out their own app, as it is a hard thing to do, so hard in fact most fail, again, IMO. I can complain about their usually naïve choice to do so... It takes a lot of people, time and magic to create and especially maintain a good app of this sort. 5/10 in a list of streamers anyone here could do just reskin a unix distro and leave it at that, using mpd or other player as the actual engine. As someone with a day job in tech, if is very transparent. The problem is that the original distribution had a better interface most times.

So, if it supports the connect layers of the streaming platforms (spotify, tidal, soon qobuz), great. If it supports roon as an endpoint, super great. If it allows me to use UpnP, I could live with that for a while, all I need for local content for example. If I'm locked in a proprietary vendor app as the only way to interact with the streamer, as a consumer, I'm out.
 
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Hear Here

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It would be good to see a more standardised approach by manufacturers so that buyers can choose the app they use. The only "standard" app available is Roon, but that requires a subscription. BluOS is probably the closest to Roon in terms of its ease of use, features offered and flexibility of platforms it can be downloaded to.

I understand other manufacturers than Bluesound and NAD (the companies that developed BluOS) have adopted BluOS as it is so comprehensive. Wouldn't it be good if other streamer builders arranged a licensing agreement with Bluesound to use this first-class app? It would save them a huge app-development project, not only to build in the first place but to keep it up to date with regular updates for all 4 or 5 platforms that users choose for controlling their streamer.

I will not buy a streamer that offers a poor app or one that isn’t available on all common platforms.
 

joaovieira

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My streamer works with Roon. I consider it extremely good. No regrets.
 

Hear Here

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My streamer works with Roon. I consider it extremely good. No regrets.
Yes, as will many streamers, but you need a Roon subscription and Roon Core or Nucleus I believe - all costs money

My streamer works with BluOS that offers virtually everything that Roon does on 5 platforms - and it costs nothing.

Why can't steamer builders either develop their own excellent apps, or get a license from something like Bluesound?

Why do we put up with streamer builders who can't be bothered to develop or license a really good control app?
 
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audiobomber

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I don't feel a need for Roon, or any proprietary streaming app. I use Minimserver 2 and BubbleUPnP, both freeware, which play seamlessly with all five of my network players.
 
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amey01

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OK, we know what streamers are for, but what do they actually do and how do they do it?

In their simplest form, as far as I can see, they are connected to the big internet in the sky via your router (or a hard drive-stored library of music files) and they miraculously get that source to send it packages of data and irons it out into a beautifully smooth and constant stream of digital data that is fed to the next device - the DAC.

Is that basically it? If not, what have I misinterpreted or is there anything else a basic streamer does? I’m talking about a simple digital-out only streamer.

Yes! That's it. It's not "rocket science". Any old laptop computer (including a Raspberry Pi) will do the same.

But dedicated streamers do allow you to achieve this in a nicely finished, quiet package without unnecessary hardware (like graphics cards) and noisy fans et al.

But ultimately, yes - they're taking data off a network and presenting it to a DAC.

What makes one streamer better than another? Is its task as complex as say a DAC? I presume not as it handles digits only.

If it’s as simple at that, why do some streamers cost hundreds of times the cost of others? That’s apart from fancy cases, power supplies, sockets, etc that one would expect in a mega-bucks streamer.

Nothing. Once you have the features you need covered, you're all set. In precisely the same way as a better computer won't alter your bank balance when you use it for internet banking, a better streamer won't change the data that it is able to extract from the network.

Some streamers cost megabux simply because there are some very smart people around who see an opportunity to exploit audiophools. And good luck to 'em - why not?


Also, what should we look for in selecting our streamer? Is it really just its control app that makes for a great streamer?

So, there are a few things you should look for - but none of them are outrageous.

Firstly, the physical - you need the connections you require (but most will have USB) so it's really moot;
and;
Support for the formats you listen to
Support for the control systems you prefer
Support for any streaming services you use
BUT;;;

Most of this can be taken care of if you look for something that is an:
Open system;
Widely used

Finally..........cheap. Because no matter how much you plan for the future, it's technology. It will be obsolete before you know it no matter which way you go. There will be a new format, new architecture, new streaming service you want to use.

Do you trust a boutique audiophile company to provide you with ongoing support for security vulnerabilities, addressing of CVEs, providing you with support for the next and greatest streaming service, etc?

I certainly don't trust that those sort of companies will be around in a year, let alone supporting me.

With an open system, you are much more likely. And if it is something like a cheap Raspberry Pi, you can turf the system you are using and get something else as simply as burning a new SD card. And if it really all does go to pot and you chuck it out - well, that is $80, not $80,000.



 
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Gregadd

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audiophools. please can we curtail the profanity?
 

joaovieira

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Amazing how some think that there are hundreds or thousands of fools. And that they just decide to spend more money to have more expensive cables, amps, sources including streamers, just to have fancy gear.

This hobby is certainly cheaper for people like this. and we are just fools.
 

treitz3

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Amazing how some think that there are hundreds or thousands of fools. And that they just decide to spend more money to have more expensive cables, amps, sources including streamers, just to have fancy gear.

This hobby is certainly cheaper for people like this. and we are just fools.
Like water off a duck's back. If they want to restrain their systems? More power to them. It doesn't affect me one iota.

Personally, I'd rather explore and progress my audio journey. That's half the fun!

Tom
 

charles1dad

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Hi Ron,
I’m looking forward to reading your listening impressions and user interface experience with the Innuos Pulse Mini. Pairing it with the LTA LPS seems like a good idea. I’m also interested in their Pulse unit with an onboard LPS.
Charles
 

Gregadd

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me too. Baltic 3also.
 

Powerman

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I am rather surprised at the lack of technical information in this thread. I am NOT the one that will be providing it. ;) Digital audio makes my head hurt... streaming, not so much. On my travels, nobody will convince my to hook up any $5000 computer to stream, process, and up sample my music. Entirely the quantum opposite of simple pure signal path. Causes more problems than it solves.

Understand, Bluetooth has no place in any audio stream ever because it will not even do 16/44hz.

A streamer simply takes IP data and converts to audio data. Not much is needed to do that. Anything involving any digital audio is driven by clocks. Depending on what input you choose to use, either the source or the destination will be master clock so it matters what is slave and what is master and how good those are.

IP can either be wired or wi-fi. Wi-fi does have plenty of bandwidth for hi-res. I have used both to my streamer and con not really tell a difference. I just know I do not want wi-fi interference, nor do I want wired interference.

So, I have a Pi4 Mercury streamer. It is not complicated. Very simple. converts IP to audio with linux. Yes, it has a software interface. I have used several... Volumio, Gentoo Player, Lumin, Aurenderer. I will have to listen to all again with new DAC to see if there is a difference. But I really do not like messing with OS and programing... makes my head hurt. But my streamer does have a NMVe drive that serves my music. The I2S output is very good and very clean. I have an LPS on it so all together it has a very simple, clean, and least amount of conversions to my DAC. That is all I care about. And straight from the drive to I2S to my DAC is instantaneous and clearly better.

Yes I have looked at others... Cambridge, Innuos, Aurilic, Rose... you know, all of them. I know power supplies matter to everything and money goes there. Other that that, I have a real hard time understanding how any streamer is going to be leaps and bounds better at converting a IP stream to audio stream... its whole purpose for being. It's not that complicated. Don't introduce noise. Keep it clean, keep it simple.

In my mind, if you are going to spend big money, the DAC matters. Its clock matters, noise isolation, filtering, power supply. If streamer is slave to DAC, then the streamer does not matter as much. I run my streamer from a tablet. Nice UI. Has some good functionality. I don't use any DSP or upsampling. My friend does have a Cambridge Audio I might give a try.
 

Alrainbow

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Dec 11, 2013
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I’ve heard a difference between a $10k streamer/server and Aurender N20 in my system. It was huge. Much bigger, than between my DAC and MSB Reference, which is 4 times more expensive, than my dac. Who cares how Aurender does it? Probably better power supply, USB output etc. It’s like with any other component: just listen and choose what sounds best to you providing you can afford it:))
Any combo needs Downstream to your dac /pre and amp.
anyone that users an iPad or phone don’t get what this is.
 

charles1dad

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Aug 22, 2021
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The “bits are bits” comments are well worn at this juncture. For those who derive happiness and contentment with very basic lower cost audio streaming, very good for you.

I have come across so many who began at that stage and subsequently moved onward and upward. The vast majority report much improved sound quality with higher quality server/ audio streaming products. Too many to ignore. I believe their subjective listening experiences.

No doubt, to each their own.
Charles
 
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