What I’d really like to see-comparative hi-end speaker shootouts

asiufy

Industry Expert/VIP Donor
Jul 8, 2011
3,711
723
1,200
San Diego, CA
almaaudio.com
The british magazine Hi Fi News does regular (monthly) shootouts among several different products in a given category, including floorstanding speakers.
For behemoth speakers, it gets kinda hard...
What I've found out is, if the person is serious about the purchase, dealers will co-operate, and organize the shootout, possibly at the person's house. I know because I've done it a few times... We take one or two pieces, another dealer brings theirs, and we set up each of ours, then compare. Of course, sometimes this exercise becomes a 2-day affair, but I don't think it gets better than that, if you're looking to evaluate specific pieces.


alexandre
 

Vette

New Member
Feb 2, 2014
18
0
0
There are 100's of speakers out there and some are so insanely expensive it is nearly impossible to make the right decision on your own. What worked for me personally was to greatly narrow the search down and focus on what people who make their living recording and mastering music listen to. I realized that their criteria was essentially the same as mine so we were on even ground.
 
Last edited:

amirm

Banned
Apr 2, 2010
15,813
38
0
Seattle, WA
my 2 cents is that no high end speaker manufacturer with a currently successful business has any interest in a high end speaker shootout. there is nothing to gain and much to lose.
That is the classic rule of business. It is always the #2 and #3 that would want to shoot out against them and as Mike rightly says, the #1 doesn't want to give them the opportunity. After all, they can't predict how these tests will go since they have never gone through them themselves.
 

es347

VIP/Donor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
1,577
35
970
Midwest fly over state..
Last edited:

Joe Whip

Well-Known Member
Feb 8, 2014
1,739
562
405
Wayne, PA
Of course that type of shootout will never happen. Too much money on the line for the manufacturers. Plus the possibility that some of these very expensive products will be exposed as not performing as well as many either think or expect them too. It is funny that we can have a shootout of the best flat panel TVs for the past 10 years but when it comes to audio, it will never happen.
 

Elliot G.

Industry Expert
Jul 22, 2010
3,324
3,035
1,910
Fort Lauderdale, Florida
www.bendingwaveusa.com
Just for kicks and giggles i will throw my two cents in since I am and always have been the devil aka a dealer.
First
there is no dealer that would want or be able to afford all that inventory and the space to house it and show it properly in today's economy.
Manufactures at the high end want commitment of their lines and having to many competing products means that the sales will be divided among to many SKU's.
Would you Marty be willing to pay a serious fee for the privilege oh having a whole store full of expensive gear at your whim and a team of staff to switch all the gear around to satisfy your desires?
At the end of this dog and pony show are you going to buy the winner and pay the price?I totally agree that it would be wonderful to go somewhere this is all possible and unicorns are all around and the walls are covered in candy but that isnt going to happen and the reason is simple $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
The second reason is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
the third reason is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
14,423
2,516
1,448
Of course that type of shootout will never happen. Too much money on the line for the manufacturers. Plus the possibility that some of these very expensive products will be exposed as not performing as well as many either think or expect them too. It is funny that we can have a shootout of the best flat panel TVs for the past 10 years but when it comes to audio, it will never happen.

Actually, a high end shoot-out did happen at Munich High End in 2004. It was sponsored by a German audio magazine. Here is the description from audiogon.

"Worlds’ Best High End Loudspeaker Competition/Demonstration?

Just got back from the Munich High End show, where I heard the most amazing demonstration. A comparison under identical conditions of the following loudspekers; Thiel CS 7.2, Sonus Faber Stradivari Homage, Audio Physic Kronos, Focal-JM Labs Grand Utopia Be, Wilson Audio Alexandria X-2 and TAD-1 (never heard of this one either, go to www.tadaudio.com for further information). This was a group demonstration in front of approximately 120 show attendees at a time, with an audience vote at the end of the final demonstration. I very much doubt anyone in the USA would dare do this type of demonstration at a HiFi show for fear of litigation! This is how it was done.

The demonstration was organized by Stereoplay, a German HiFi magazine. The room was approximately 8m x 30m x 3.5m (approximately 26 ft wide, 66 ft long, 11 ft high. The room had been specially acoustically treated with sound absorbers (sounded fine to me). Each set of speaker had been optimized for room placement before the demonstration (tape marks on the floor). Each set of speakers was auditioned in isolation; the other speakers were kept outside the demonstration room. All speakers were mounted on castors to facilitate moving in and out of the demonstration room (for practical purposes they were kept on the castors for the demonstration). Three pieces of music was played on each set of speakers; a SACD, LP and regular CD. I do not know the names of the pieces (I don’t speak German, so I couldn’t understand what was being said at the demonstration introduction). However, the SACD was Jazz, CD classical and the CD Latin. All recording were of demonstration caliber and full range recording. I believe sound levels had been previously set to enable each set of loudspeakers to play at exactly the same level. Equipment included a Viola Cadenza pre-amp, Pass XA160 power amp, Accuphase DP-85 CD/SACD player, Laufwerk TT (German, high end). All hooked together with some very impressive looking power cables, interconnects and speaker cable (read, very expensive looking). In summary, IMHO, the speakers were being demonstrated under the best conditions possible, albeit with approximately 120 people in a very large room. The overall demonstration took approximately 1 hour. Time between demonstrations was kept relatively short due to some fancy loudspeaker movement and team work.

How did they sound? Fantastic, every single loudspeaker! Mind you, at this price, so they should! I don’t have the ability to describe how each speaker sounded, remember this is a comparative demonstration.

And the winner is? Based on a show of hands after the final demonstration (the demonstration was done in the same order I listed the speakers), the Wilson Audio Alexandria X-2 was a clear winner. I think they are the most expensive speakers demonstrated. I personally found the TAD-1s were also excellent.
Mgattmch (Threads | Answers | This Thread)"
 

Vette

New Member
Feb 2, 2014
18
0
0
Just for kicks and giggles i will throw my two cents in since I am and always have been the devil aka a dealer.
First
there is no dealer that would want or be able to afford all that inventory and the space to house it and show it properly in today's economy.
Manufactures at the high end want commitment of their lines and having to many competing products means that the sales will be divided among to many SKU's.
Would you Marty be willing to pay a serious fee for the privilege oh having a whole store full of expensive gear at your whim and a team of staff to switch all the gear around to satisfy your desires?
At the end of this dog and pony show are you going to buy the winner and pay the price?I totally agree that it would be wonderful to go somewhere this is all possible and unicorns are all around and the walls are covered in candy but that isnt going to happen and the reason is simple $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
The second reason is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
the third reason is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

I am not a dealer but I fully understand your point. But if I were a dealer I would strive to carry the right speakers so the customer would not have to audition a bunch of speakers to find the best one.
 

MrAcoustat

New Member
Jun 5, 2012
847
7
0
78
Quebec Canada
I am not a dealer but I fully understand your point. But if I were a dealer I would strive to carry the right speakers so the customer would not have to audition a bunch of speakers to find the best one.

I understand what you are saying BUT the right speaker for YOU may not be the RIGHT speaker for ME :) many members here own Wilson Alexandria speakers but if i where able to own such expensive speakers they would be the last one on my list of course i'm a panel kind of guy :) Sound Lab - Analysis Audio - Kingsound - Metaxas - Magnepan - Podium Sound - Essence - Quad - Audio Exklusiv - Audiostatic - among others would be my choice and of course not forgetting the best I have heard to date the (( DIY Acoustat Spectra 8800s ))

Acoustat Spectra 8800 05.jpg
 

marty

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
3,034
4,196
2,520
United States
+1...2mm might make a difference in Lasik surgery but in speaker placement? :rolleyes:

As an ophthalmologist, I'll share with you that the human cornea is about 0.5mm thick. So yeah, I'd say that 2 mm would indeed make a huge difference! In fact, you would have to pick the cornea off the floor since you cut it off completely if you set your keratome to 2mm! Seriously, in Lasik surgery, we shaving off microns, not millimeters from the cornea. Off topic but couldn't resist. Sorry
 

Vette

New Member
Feb 2, 2014
18
0
0
I understand what you are saying BUT the right speaker for YOU may not be the RIGHT speaker for ME :) many members here own Wilson Alexandria speakers but if i where able to own such expensive speakers they would be the last one on my list of course i'm a panel kind of guy :) Sound Lab - Analysis Audio - Kingsound - Metaxas - Magnepan - Podium Sound - Essence - Quad - Audio Exklusiv - Audiostatic - among others would be my choice and of course not forgetting the best I have heard to date the (( DIY Acoustat Spectra 8800s ))

View attachment 18637

I understand what your saying BUT, as a dealer, the right speaker for me would be the one that more vs. less will want. Lexus is moving production of their ES350 to the US because it is by far the most popular Lexus model and the plant in Japan can't keep up with US demand. Given a choice, I would prefer to be a Lexus dealer vs. others, i.e., if I were an audio dealer I would want to sell the brand where the manufacturer can't keep up with demand.
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
14,423
2,516
1,448
So, it hasn't been done anywhere since and never in the US?

i have only read about this one shootout (of this scale), though i have to imagine someone else has done it since.
 

PeterA

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2011
12,644
10,895
3,515
USA
i have only read about this one shootout (of this scale), though i have to imagine someone else has done it since.

I know of a dealer that performed a shoot out of 3 or 4 speakers about eight years ago for a handful of customers who travelled far to attend. They were all interested in buying their favorite of these flagship speakers, which were delivered for the purpose of this demonstration and sale. The demo/shoot out took a lot of effort to set up. When it was all over, a couple of extremely expensive speakers were sold and one line was dropped when none of the customers or the dealer was very impressed. I will not mention the brands involved because it would be too easy to figure out who the dealer is and what brand was dropped.

This is the only such shoot out that I am aware of for actual buyers with 3 or 4 flagship speakers from major competing speaker manufacturers. I don't know the details of the system or conditions of the test, but much was learned.
 

MrAcoustat

New Member
Jun 5, 2012
847
7
0
78
Quebec Canada
I know of a dealer that performed a shoot out of 3 or 4 speakers about eight years ago for a handful of customers who travelled far to attend. They were all interested in buying their favorite of these flagship speakers, which were delivered for the purpose of this demonstration and sale. The demo/shoot out took a lot of effort to set up. When it was all over, a couple of extremely expensive speakers were sold and one line was dropped when none of the customers or the dealer was very impressed. I will not mention the brands involved because it would be too easy to figure out who the dealer is and what brand was dropped.

This is the only such shoot out that I am aware of for actual buyers with 3 or 4 flagship speakers from major competing speaker manufacturers. I don't know the details of the system or conditions of the test, but much was learned.

If i read you correctly this was very good for the dealer, he sold a few pair of expensive speakers and dropped a line that nobody found interesting, sure would like to know the brands that where in the shoot out.:)
 

MrAcoustat

New Member
Jun 5, 2012
847
7
0
78
Quebec Canada
I understand what your saying BUT, as a dealer, the right speaker for me would be the one that more vs. less will want. Lexus is moving production of their ES350 to the US because it is by far the most popular Lexus model and the plant in Japan can't keep up with US demand. Given a choice, I would prefer to be a Lexus dealer vs. others, i.e., if I were an audio dealer I would want to sell the brand where the manufacturer can't keep up with demand.

Wow a dealer with McIntosh & PMC in his system this kind of dealer i would trust his EARS.:)
 

dallasjustice

Member Sponsor
Apr 12, 2011
2,067
8
0
Dallas, Texas
Marty,
Your idea is an excellent idea. But it's unlikely to happen for all the reasons mentioned. However, there's another similar idea that's been floated before. Since the biggest impediment to speaker comparison is the natural variation among different listening environments, the listening room itself could be standardized. Of course, speaker manufacturers wouldn't agree to a master listening room where various speakers could be heard. But other manufacturers may welcome the idea. I think this is especially true for amp manufacturers. They would need a standardized listening environment so they could compare their gear on various speakers. Maybe build three identical rooms in the US; west coast, east coast and Texas. :)
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
12,318
1,427
1,820
Manila, Philippines
I don't think that is practical either. Size alone would extremely difficult to get a consensus on especially since every speaker is designed around a range of room sizes and listening distances. That said there is one room that was settled on many, many decades ago....the anechoic chamber. Well that or, in a pinch, an open space and some scaffolds.

It's so easy to screw up a wide bandwidth high resolution system that you can pretty much guarantee that someone will shout foul at some point. We're back to working to make specific rooms and specific speakers work together.

I hate having to say "It depends" a whole lot to both clients and friends when it comes to speakers, electronics and rooms but it is the honest answer. Everything needs to be taken as a whole.
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing