What is high end audio all about?

[mep]

Tom,

You are not paying the Devil's Advocate, you are playing the audiophile advocate. We risk that this issue evolves in a linguistic debate. A microphone can not capture height, but an instrument sounds different if it is playing in a low position or in a high position. In some systems the indirect clues about height position embedded in the recording are enough to create a correct illusion of height in the soundstage, that can be very gratifying.



In order to debate this issue you need psycoacoustics, starting with how we perceive height of a sound source and understanding it is a completely different from lateral and depth localization.

All IMHO.

We have been down the height alley already with the usual sides squaring off.

 

[Ethan Winer]

At the risk of sounding argumentative [which is not my intent]

Not to worry. Questions, even when they could seem like a direct challenge, are never a problem for me. As long as you don't call me a tin-eared loser we're good.

it has been discussed at great length here at the WBF that a microphone can not record height in a recording, yet a playback system [system and speaker type dependent] can have the ability to recreate the illusion of height.

It seems to me the height factor is the same for a microphone and for a loudspeaker. In either case you have a one-dimensional transducer in a three-dimensional world. When you have two microphones or two speakers you can convey two dimensions - left and right. Height in a live situation is assessed by the delay after the direct sound reaches your ears, and then the same sound reaches you after reflecting off the floor and ceiling (and maybe to some extent off the walls). Depending on how far away you are from the source, and how long the delays are, you'll hear either comb filtering when the delay is shorter than about 20 milliseconds, or actual echoes when the delay is longer. With impulse type sounds like snare drums and claves you can hear discrete echoes even when they're much shorter than 20 milliseconds. With slow sustained sounds like legato violins, you might not perceive the reflections as echoes until they're as much as 80 milliseconds later.

My living room home theater has absorption at all the first reflection points - the left and right walls, and the ceiling, plus carpet on the floor. I've noticed a lack of height information! My speakers are just below the TV and projector screen, which is also a bit below ear level. But I get the illusion of actor's voices coming from their heads directly in front of me, rather than lower down. So I'll go out on a limb and say that perception of height during playback is most likely artificial, not something that's embedded into a recording, but rather added by the particular room you're listening in.

Related, I can't offhand see how some instruments could be higher than others in a recording. I'm not saying it can't be! Just that I don't immediately see how. The usual left-right delays embedded in a recording can certainly create width, and even front-back depth. But I don't know what one would do to alter the height of a single instrument in a classical ensemble or mix of pop tune tracks. Maybe Bruce has some ideas?

--Ethan

 

[Imperial]

High end is like holding a rose, savouring the smell, bleeding from holding it ... thorns and all, still enjoying the moment, not wanting to let go. Looking for one more, always looking for one more...

Imperial.

 

[Joe D]

I like a high end as opposed to a low end

 

[TitaniumTroy]

I use hi-end audio to take me to another place mentally, or feel another's emotions. I feel music does this better than other art forms, and while not a gear head, I like checking new and old stuff equipment at audio storefront, online, or in a magazine. Also discussing what is SOTA in equipment and room acoustic's in forums like this.

I listen to a lot of movie soundtracks, Tron Legacy, Gladiator, Kill Bill, The Good The Bad The Ugly, Chinatown, and then a little bit of everything else.

 

[bachrocks1685]

For me, it's putting together my idea (including financial means) of a dream audio system that I love almost as much when it's not even on as when it's filling my heart with music.

ron

 

[jdza]

High fidelity audio is the ideal of taking an event,that happens to be musical,in time and space,freezing it and recreating that event perfectly in another time and space. Therein lies the magic-the impossibility of that attempt. We can never come even close to recreating a visual experience to perfection but maybe we can approximate perfection with the auditory one.

High end audio is about taking that dream,bolting huge aluminium slabs and turned feet to it ,displaying it in a dazzling , decorative medal display in front of the listener and seeing who can slap the highest price on the watered down dream-Sorry,that was two paragraphs.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

High fidelity is all about re-producing the recording in the home. High-end? I think we got way past a paragraph long, long ago.

Tim

 

[Elliot G.]

It seems so many on this site want to argue and push forth the negative in every discussion.
First music is for the listener! I dont care what it sounds like in the studio or on stage. I m not there. High Fidelity gear is for the LISTENER. They make other stuff for musicians and engineers.
Its not about price its not about brands its all about creating that fleeting illusion that what we are listening to sounds real. Real in the sense of what is produced live. The folks that discuss the mic feeds or some other crap are just looking for excuses since almost no one ever has that opportunity.
Music is and always was played to entertain an audience. I am an audience and all of you should be as well unless its your profession. If you go and see live music then take that sensory memory and try to re-create that in your home. It might be a good idea to find a tour guide but that is a subject for another argument.

 

[microstrip]

It seems so many on this site want to argue and push forth the negative in every discussion. (...)

Elliot,

Not so many, just a few ... Happily most of us have a very positive view on our hobby!

 

[treitz3]

Hello, Elliot. I must echo microstrip's thoughts on this.

Tom

 

[JackD201]

Yup the cheerful outnumber the grumps here.

 

[Groucho]

Been thinking about this. What I have realised is that there is certain music that I love, full stop. I could hear it on a TV, portable radio or in the car and just the music itself would be enough to get me going. What real hi fi does, though, is to widen the pool of available music that I can get excited about. There is music where some of the content is only audible on a good system with large speakers e.g. in the deep bass, and that without that, the 'meaning' of the music is lost, and there is some material where it is amazing sounds that transform a mediocre 'tune' into something special, where spectacular reproduction is required to get the most out of it. And when it comes to large scale classical orchestral stuff, there is simply no point in playing it on some weedy system with small speakers, because it all just munges into mud, with no chance of hearing the individual instruments in their own space. Perhaps I don't need 'high end' in the expensive sense to achieve all this, but I do need equipment with guts, scale and linearity.

 

[cpp]

High end is the enjoyment of music on your level, within your budget and your music taste.

 

[C.T.Toad]

To get the truth behind the music.
Full emotional engagement to the music that can show what the artist is trying to get across through note and (or) voice inflections.
To be taken to a place that can bring fire to or truly relax the soul.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

High end is the enjoyment of music on your level, within your budget and your music taste.

I like this. High end is a reference to quality of gear, but what about quality of enjoyment? The two don't have to meet and both are equallly valid.

 

[DaveyF]

I like this. High end is a reference to quality of gear, but what about quality of enjoyment? The two don't have to meet and both are equallly valid.

John, I love that too. Only, I think High end is the enjoyment of music on your level, BUT not truly within the budget of many who think it is, LOL.

 

[cpp]

What is high end audio all about?

The enjoyment of music the way I want to enjoy it...

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

The enjoyment of music the way I want to enjoy it...

+1. My system is literally 8' away from me, but I'm listening to some Keb'Mo' right now on my active PC monitors...and enjoying it just the same!

 

[cpp]

+1. My system is literally 8' away from me, but I'm listening to some Keb'Mo' right now on my active PC monitors...and enjoying it just the same!

KebMo