What is it about the bass, that it becomes so robust with after-market cords and conditioners?

[amirm]

Light bass can be, but frankly it's too hard to determine without making a change to perceive a difference.

Same question as current. Why are you not able to measure bass being light? Is that unmeasurable?

 

[treitz3]

Exactly why we're here discussing & sharing Tom ! But I'm unclear about which part is different, the hard plastic IEC fit or wire gauge?

david

That's the $64,000.00 question Dave. The responses can vary as much as one can fathom. Close to an indefinite response, unfortunately. It would be nice if in our hobby that things were more precise.

Tom

 

[RogerD]

Maybe because bass is what people think power cords improve. By paying attention to it they then hear its details that were always there but not captured in our memory/perception.

You actually believe such bullshit....amazing!

 

[ddk]

You're not wrong about overall contact possibility. However however however... the average IEC cord has a very gentle spiral to it. That's why they're so flexible. This however also means that they have significantly less RF attenuation.

My preference thus far is for high quality copper, simple twisted cables. I'm not saying there are not better cables, just that they sound better than average 12ga for extension cords and sound plenty good enough for my uses in R&D.

Of course things are never equal Folsom and one needs to find the right products but I've been using 14 gauge hospital grade copper power cords for the past 15 years and these types of cords have replaced many mega dollar cords in a number of members' systems here. RF is a separate issue, personally I never experienced any RF related problems with hospital grade power cords. I don't see why audiophile cords would fare any better unless they use some kind of filter which can have negative sonic effects.

david

 

[16hz lover]

No, it is the opposite. Everyone is born with the same human abilities. You cannot override those no matter how great you think you are. What is retarded is to think that all the variables that go into your perception are under your control. They are not.

Think of driving to and from work. It being routine, not much enters into your memory. Now think of sightseeing using your car. This time you pay attention and commit a lot more to memory. This is called "elasticity."

Your hearing is elastic. When you swap something and then pay attention to what may have changed, you now have a totally different experience. The short term memory which is under 20 seconds, gets filtered differently and what gets stored in long term memory distinctly different. You can now hear details, air, more bass, etc. that you took for granted before.

This is how your brain and hearing system works. You cannot do anything about it but be aware of it and conduct experiments which guard against it.

We can objectively prove all of this by for example, playing the same thing twice and have you perceive better bass, detail in one of those rounds and not the other. You will swear that the two sounds are different if I did not tell you they are identical. Heck, even knowing they are identical you can "hear" differences.

It will be a complete waste of the remaining minutes of my day responding to this. But the enormous amount of Major League, Hall of Fame BS is too much to ignore. But don't bother to respond as this is the last time I'll be checking this thread.

 

[still-one]

Of course things are never equal Folsom and one needs to find the right products but I've been using 14 gauge hospital grade copper power cords for the past 15 years and these types of cords have replaced many mega dollar cords in a number of members' systems here. RF is a separate issue, personally I never experienced any RF related problems with hospital grade power cords. I don't see why audiophile cords would fare any better unless they use some kind of filter which can have negative sonic effects.

david

You say negative effect while others say positive effect.

Thanks for presenting us with your power cord dogma, I can now avoid having to read further posts of yours.

 

[ddk]

That's the $64,000.00 question Dave. The responses can vary as much as one can fathom. Close to an indefinite response, unfortunately. It would be nice if in our hobby that things were more precise.

Tom

With so many possibilities why just settle for one? There are too many variables here and no one could know it all, we share based on our experience and taste. There's also plenty of hype from both experts and wanna be experts further muddying already very murky waters. All I can say is if something makes sense and you can afford it, give it a shot.

david

 

[Folsom]

Of course things are never equal Folsom and one needs to find the right products but I've been using 14 gauge hospital grade copper power cords for the past 15 years and these types of cords have replaced many mega dollar cords in a number of members' systems here. RF is a separate issue, personally I never experienced any RF related problems with hospital grade power cords. I don't see why audiophile cords would fare any better unless they use some kind of filter which can have negative sonic effects.

david

RF is cumulative, not a problem like a ground loop that's often on/off. It's always there, literally, but doesn't mean it has anything to do with hearing it distinct from the music. It does however change the music. You're into tubes, so RF is often lower in many key areas due to how typical topology of tube amps.

I'm not surprised you've had better results with simple hospital grade cords! It often takes a bold man such as yourself to show someone what can be.

 

[Whatmore]

You actually believe such bullshit....amazing!

There's a razor that belongs to mr. Occam.
It is not used nearly enough in this hobby.

 

[treitz3]

You actually believe such bullshit....amazing!

It would be nice if the correspondence is a little less...."harsh" for conversation. Please refrain from such harsh comments so that we may have a cordial conversation with this topic.

Tom

 

[ddk]

You say negative effect while others say positive effect.

Thanks for presenting us with your power cord dogma, I can now avoid having to read further posts of yours.

Whatever pleases you Jim, I don't have a dog in the race just prefer wires that disappear over ones that impress.

david

 

[Barry2013]

My experience is that after market power cables do improve the sound and not just in the bass.
I suspect that the build quality/connectors are generally of higher quality along with cable wiring and possibly the fuses. Further upgrading the fuses has certainly worked for me in common with many other members' experiences.

 

[treitz3]

With so many possibilities why just settle for one?

Possibly the best and most honest response thus far. We can agree to this one.

Tom

 

[Folsom]

Aren't you an engineer? If so, why won't you use your engineering experience to measure and thereby, confirm your hypothesis?

Why are you so sure it is a current issue if you have not measured it anyway?

What resolution does it need to be and why?

Why waste my time? I've got results and they're not hypothesis. They're based in changes on engineering principles. You should be bothering a scientist if you want to disprove or prove engineering principles currently in use.

 

[Barry2013]

Of course things are never equal Folsom and one needs to find the right products but I've been using 14 gauge hospital grade copper power cords for the past 15 years and these types of cords have replaced many mega dollar cords in a number of members' systems here. RF is a separate issue, personally I never experienced any RF related problems with hospital grade power cords. I don't see why audiophile cords would fare any better unless they use some kind of filter which can have negative sonic effects.

david

What connectors and fuses do you use and have you experimented with them on your hospital grade cables?

 

[treitz3]

Oh boy..... *slaps head*

Tom

 

[ddk]

RF is cumulative, not a problem like a ground loop that's often on/off. It's always there, literally, but doesn't mean it has anything to do with hearing it distinct from the music. It does however change the music. You're into tubes, so RF is often lower in many key areas due to how typical topology of tube amps.

I'm not surprised you've had better results with simple hospital grade cords! It often takes a bold man such as yourself to show someone what can be.

I believe you Folsom, I have no way to measure RF or it's effects on a power cord unless it's radio signal that you can hear, noise is just noise to me and I manage it including broadband hash and ground loops with a proper system ground, no band-aids.

david

 

[Whatmore]

It would be nice if the correspondence is a little less...."harsh" for conversation. Please refrain from such harsh comments so that we may have a cordial conversation with this topic.

Tom

+100

 

[NorthStar]

Gotta try them out Bob, in my case I found exactly what I wanted in some standard power cords and never been happy with audiophile power cords but I'm that way with cables too, specially the expensive ones many are designed to do things and they do just that which is what I don't like about them!

david

David, I've always seen you like a down-to-earth very intelligent man of high knowledge. The other day for example; I've searched about Roger Waters...I've learned things that I never knew...thank you. To me it's important to be well informed and have the best head on our shoulders.

You are one of the highest grade audiophiles here; and you talk with your brain well relaxed and in place. Again, on AC cords. I did try some different ones; and to be honest I heard the placebo difference with full impact and integrity.

As for bass, here too I am not an expert, only a human loving life and everything in it, including bass.
I don't use power conditioners because they are not mentioned in my electronic purchases. I don't live in Florida, USA...I live on Vancouver Island, Canada.
When the power is down, it is down; no power conditioning will resurrect it. For impure power I'm all for people buying power conditioners. ...It's the same for broken/split hairs and older gray/white hairs. When your hair are that color, your ears aren't anymore top performers.
But, some old folks believe in the power of their ears. Me too. The sound of music is gold, silence is heaven.

Last night I revisited 'Arrival'. The night before, 'Moana' in 3D. The bass from both was fine, the power transmission, no problem, everything was normal, I think, and without any additional extras. Could I've experience something more grandiose than that? Just no way, I was way high up there. Too high and I would lose control. :b

 

[microstrip]

Why does the bass become so pronounced with after-market power products?

The honest answer is we do not know. Cable manufacturers have given us many reasons why power cables affect electrical signals and we have evidence of it in several instrumental areas, but the influence of power cables in high-end stereo is still a great unknown. Based on empirical evidence due to our audiophile experience most of us do not have doubts on it, but IMHO we can not correlate the electrical parameters of the power cable with bass quality.

IMHO the OP question is biased - some after market cables can make bass lean or fat, not robust. And we can not separate our perception of bass from the whole spectra - some very small changes in other zones can affect bass "robustness".