What SPECIFICALLY is better or different about the Wadax Design? How do these design choices manifest in better sound?

[Stereophonic]

What seems bizarre to me is that in AudioScienceReview, a really hostile forum to the high-end, there is much more technical discussion and exposition of specific aspects about the Wadax Reference than in this forum.

I’ve read the ASR forum.
Really interesting discussion :

- RH is describing audible jitter in ancient CD players to excuse the ridiculous price of a modern digital server. He is supposed to be an engineer so he probably actually knows this is a bullsh-- analogy.
- A long winded piece of technical obfuscation and bull5hit.
- What they are trying to tell us is that, in two systems with essentially zero bit errors, one will sound better because its ones and zeroes look better on an oscilloscope. This is very expensive nonsense. What I want to know is do the engineers working at this company really believe this stuff?
- You can't fix stupid. Even for $220k.
- This money better spent on therapy.
- Throwing big money at these fancy packaged bull patties is so silly it's actually sad. And to repeat, a very foul insult to engineers, technicians and all reproduced music lovers.
- I can't think of *anything* that this product *could* do that would justify its existence (other than to take money from wealthy gullible folks).
- Wadax will make a ton of profit while not advancing in any way the art and scene of Audio reproduction of audio ...
- $220,000.oo of detergent may be needed to remove the stench of that load of crap…

 

[microstrip]

I’ve read the ASR forum.
Really interesting discussion :

- RH is describing audible jitter in ancient CD players to excuse the ridiculous price of a modern digital server. He is supposed to be an engineer so he probably actually knows this is a bullsh-- analogy.
- A long winded piece of technical obfuscation and bull5hit.
- What they are trying to tell us is that, in two systems with essentially zero bit errors, one will sound better because its ones and zeroes look better on an oscilloscope. This is very expensive nonsense. What I want to know is do the engineers working at this company really believe this stuff?
- You can't fix stupid. Even for $220k.
- This money better spent on therapy.
- Throwing big money at these fancy packaged bull patties is so silly it's actually sad. And to repeat, a very foul insult to engineers, technicians and all reproduced music lovers.
- I can't think of *anything* that this product *could* do that would justify its existence (other than to take money from wealthy gullible folks).
- Wadax will make a ton of profit while not advancing in any way the art and scene of Audio reproduction of audio ...
- $220,000.oo of detergent may be needed to remove the stench of that load of crap…

It seems you lost your time reading the usual anti-high end cheap rant and insulting style of ASR and missed the few interesting technical posts. I suggest you do better next time.

Unfortunately for the high-end some points on the reviews reported in the posts are not entirely false.

 

[Stereophonic]

It seems you lost your time reading the usual anti-high end cheap rant and insulting style of ASR and missed the few interesting technical posts. I suggest you do better next time.

I don’t find any….

 

[microstrip]

I don’t find any….

Get new reading glasses before you re-read posts by Mihalis and Tomelex. Tinted glasses are not good for such purposes ...

 

[Stereophonic]

Get new reading glasses before you re-read posts by Mihalis and Tomelex. Tinted glasses are not good for such purposes ...

 

[Mike Lavigne]

i find that ASR occupies an alternate universe. i wish them well in their musings. but pay it no heed.

i know Amir, he for years interacted with me on this forum, he is local and has been to my home a few times and i've had lunch with him. we have zero common ground to converse about. he has little interest in listening, i have little interest in his views on music reproduction and hifi.

 

[Carlos269]

i find that ASR occupies an alternate universe. i wish them well in their musings. but pay it no heed.

i know Amir, he for years interacted with me on this forum, he is local and has been to my home a few times and i've had lunch with him. we have zero common ground to converse about. he has little interest in listening, i have little interest in his views on music reproduction and hifi.

It’s not just Amir that finds the claims dubious. Many members there with technical backgrounds find the Wadax language hard to swallow.

Again, a technical assessment by John Atkinson would be very insightful and stop most of the speculations and start shedding some light into these products in factual terms. You as an owner should demand this. What is there to be afraid of?

 

[Audiocrack]

It’s not just Amir that finds the claims dubious. Many members there with technical backgrounds find the Wadax language hard to swallow.

Again, a technical assessment by John Atkinson would be very insightful and stop most of the speculations and start shedding some light into these products in factual terms. You as an owner should demand this. What is there to be afraid of?

Why oh why should we as owners demand a technical assessment by JA? First of all we are not in a position to demand something like that from an independent company. Secondly we bought our Wadax gear because we actually listen to - and love / enjoy immensely the sound of - our gear. And the latter is all what our common audio / music hobby is about: we trust our ears and get ourselves immersed in music.

 

[Steve Vu]

It’s not just Amir that finds the claims dubious. Many members there with technical backgrounds find the Wadax language hard to swallow.

Again, a technical assessment by John Atkinson would be very insightful and stop most of the speculations and start shedding some light into these products in factual terms. You as an owner should demand this. What is there to be afraid of?

Your idol Amir measured his ML amp and its measurements were worse than China amps. However, I don't know why he still keeps ML amp

If JA declares your products are bad, your system will sound worse immediately, right? That's pity for you.

 

[Carlos269]

Why oh why should we as owners demand a technical assessment by JA? First of all we are not in a position to demand something like that from an independent company. Secondly we bought our Wadax gear because we actually listen to - and love / enjoy immensely the sound of - our gear. And the latter is all what our common audio / music hobby is about: we trust our ears and get ourselves immersed in music.

Demand figuratively but of course literally is also a good idea.

Your idol Amir measured his ML amp and its measurements were worse than China amps. However, I don't know why he still keeps ML amp

If JA declares your products are bad, your system will sound worse immediately, right? That's pity for you.

As they say, ignorance is bliss!

 

[Steve Vu]

As they say, ignorance is bliss!

That's right in your case

 

[morricab]

No, it is not. As pointed at that time tube rolling is a game of preference, too unsystematic to be analyzed by measurements. Nothing could be learned by them.

I would expect tube rolling to have measurable effects on DACs like the Lampizator, where it is not just the make of tube being rolled but the tube type as well. No one has bothered to do this but could provide an interesting result.

 

[Ron Resnick]

It’s not just Amir that finds the claims dubious. Many members there with technical backgrounds find the Wadax language hard to swallow.

Again, a technical assessment by John Atkinson would be very insightful and stop most of the speculations and start shedding some light into these products in factual terms. You as an owner should demand this. What is there to be afraid of?

I find Amir’s dubiousnes, or the dubiousness of his sycophants on ASR, to be probative of nothing. If Amir can’t measure a difference, then Amir cannot (and will not) hear a difference.

Since when do we owners of components in this hobby demand that marketing copy make technical sense, or demand that that marketing copy be proven by a third party to be technically accurate?

 

[PeterA]

I find Amir’s dubiousnes, or the dubiousness of his sycophants on ASR, to be probative of nothing. If Amir can’t measure a difference, then Amir cannot (and will not) hear a difference.

Since when do we owners of components in this hobby demand that marketing copy make technical sense, or demand that that marketing copy be proven by a third party to be technically accurate?

Are not some demanding or requesting at least that record labels be honest in their marketing at this very moment? Ron, I find your comment pretty ironic given the MoFi hoopla. Were it not for a third-party, this scandal may never have come to light.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Are not some demanding or requesting at least that record labels be honest in their marketing at this very moment? Ron, I find your comment pretty ironic given the MoFi hoopla. Were it not for a third-party, this scandal may never have come to light.

You could manufacture an irony by zooming out too far and trying to prove too much. You are talking about software, and I am talking about hardware. I think software and hardware are different. You may consider software and hardware to be the same thing.

Do you consider gasoline and automobiles to be the same thing? I think a false statement about the ingredients of a gasoline is different than the technical accuracy of a sports car’s lifestyle marketing copy, or a third party’s technical evaluation of the efficacy of a new fuel injection component.

Seeing organic beef fillet on a menu with a picture of a cow next to it, and finding out that you were served an Impossible Burger, is different than demanding that the menu describe accurately the subjective taste of the dish, or be accompanied by an analysis of the meal conducted by a third-party evaluator.

These analogies suggest to me that demanding software to be described technically accurately is different than demanding hardware to be described technically accurately.

 

[howiebrou]

You could manufacture an irony by zooming out too far and trying to prove too much. You are talking about software, and I am talking about hardware. I think software and hardware are different. You may consider software and hardware to be the same thing.

Do you consider gasoline and automobiles to be the same thing? I think a false statement about the ingredients of a gasoline is different than the technical accuracy of a sports car’s lifestyle marketing copy, or a third party’s technical evaluation of the efficacy of a new fuel injection component.

Seeing organic beef fillet on a menu with a picture of a cow next to it, and finding out that you were served an Impossible Burger, is different than demanding that the menu describe accurately the subjective taste of the dish, or be accompanied by an analysis of the meal conducted by a third-party evaluator.

These analogies suggest to me that demanding software to be described technically accurately is different than demanding hardware to be described technically accurately.

The Impossible burger is the only bit of marketing that is truly honest because it is absolutely impossible to think you are actually eating beef unless you have a taste palate like the backside of a camel!

 

[Carlos269]

Since when do we owners of components in this hobby demand that marketing copy make technical sense, or demand that that marketing copy be proven by a third party to be technically accurate?

Since their claims do not hold water, since these products are claimed to stray from the pack, and given the cost of these components. In other industries, suppliers have to provide proof of conformance to stated claims. Since the manufacturer is not being forthcoming with information, then an independent third party test is warranted.

If you just step back and read all the marketing claims and owners’ reports, they give reasons for further understanding, investigation, and inspection.

If Wadax allows for change of the rise-time of the edge of the digital waveform and it has an audible effect, then Wadax would be the first manufacturer to intentionally inject digital jitter into the signal, easy to analyze this with JA’s jitter test. The sine-wave reconstruction analysis would be very insightful. Dynamic-range assessment would be very telling.

 

[spiritofmusic]

And if jitter was proved to be injected, would this negate the Wadax sound and raison d'etre as a company?
Or would well heeled buyers still flock to buy $220k gear because it sounds so compelling? Or any of the other reasons well heeled audiophiles flock?
Or are we saying the market here is like the market for the purest of pure mineral waters? That Wadax are claiming their $220k bottle of l'eau is the purest of the pure, but there are claims of less than absolute purity?
And again, would the buyers of $220k spring water pass on bottles of it if they found it was adulterated, even if it had the metaphorically sweetest taste of nothing at all?

 

[Carlos269]

And if jitter was proved to be injected, would this negate the Wadax sound and raison d'etre as a company?
Or would well heeled buyers still flock to buy $220k gear because it sounds so compelling? Or any of the other reasons well heeled audiophiles flock?
Or are we saying the market here is like the market for the purest of pure mineral waters? That Wadax are claiming their $220k bottle of l'eau is the purest of the pure, but there are claims of less than absolute purity?
And again, would the buyers of $220k spring water pass on bottles of it if they found it was adulterated, even if it had the metaphorically sweetest taste of nothing at all?

We would have to wait and see. Similarly, will customers shun Mobile-Fidelity for the recent discoveries? But the customers deserve to know. We should to be consistent and not flip-flop, and give some a pass, while holding others’ feet to the flame.

 

[howiebrou]

We would have to wait and see. Similarly, will customers shunt Mobile-Fidelity for the recent discoveries? But the customers deserve to know. We should to be consistent and not flip-flop, and give some a pass, while holding others’ feet to the flame.

I will shun MoFi not because their stuff doesn't sound good, but because they were purposely dishonest. Does Wadax fit into this category? I don't know if they do.