When is enough, enough, or how to get off the bandwagon??

[rockitman]

I guess the question would be, why do you have to get off the bandwagon? Obviously if it's an obsession that is ruining your life, perhaps yes, but why get off the wagon if you're having a good time?

Exactly. How does one know how much time they have left on th planet ? It's a great justification to buy what you want and can afford now w/in reason.

 

[rbbert]

Exactly. How does one know how much time they have left on th planet ? It's a great justification to buy what you want and can afford now w/in reason.

Only a problem when it starts to adversely affect other parts of your life (as with any obsession or addiction)

 

[JackD201]

Exactly. How does one know how much time they have left on th planet ? It's a great justification to buy what you want and can afford now w/in reason.

Funny. Jadis was at my place this afternoon and we were having a similar conversation. It pretty much followed the line that we do what we do so we can enjoy music not to cause aggravation. Although sometimes it's unavoidable! LOL!

 

[Tonepub]

Always tough to have balance with something you really enjoy...

 

[Bill Hart]

I guess the question would be, why do you have to get off the bandwagon? Obviously if it's an obsession that is ruining your life, perhaps yes, but why get off the wagon if you're having a good time?

!

Jeff: I took the original question to mean is there a point where we are 'satisfied' or is this an endless quest? And if it is an endless quest, is it driven by a genuine need to improve the [fill in the blank: musicality, truthfulness, accuracy, transparency, etc.] of our audio reproduction system or is there something else going on? I'm no more immune to marketing than the next guy (or gal), and I get the idea of not wanting to be left behind-
"OMG, i just upgraded to the MkII version, hands-down a huge and dramatic improvement in X"
but, it seems like most of the people here have been around the block a few times, and are not necessarily going to buy the new X (or the upgrade) based on a mainstream review, or even a strong Internet buzz. (How many times have we seen a flavor of the month pre-amp, speaker, etc. that you couldn't live without, and that generated a huge buzz, just drop off the face of the planet).
Some equipment is almost eternal, e.g. the Quad ESL. Other equipment, while it may not be category defining in the same sense, seems to be owned by people who don't suffer from constant upgrade-itis. (I'm thinking about the older McIntosh tube stuff, but there may be better examples).
We are all gear-heads, I think. I know I am. I like the intrinsic mechanical beauty of well made equipment and interesting design. So, if the question is, to what extent is our insatiable need to buy, acquire, own, trade or change equipment really taking us closer to the music, I think the answer, at least for me is, "i'm not sure." I don't have the latest stuff, and lived happily with old Quads for 30 years before changing to horns. That system has been improved over the last 6 or so years, but is pretty much where it started- low power tube amps, vinyl only source and a pair of Duos. I'm not saying that I can avoid the temptation to change or upgrade- in fact, i just changed out my phono stage, but based on what I've experienced, the latest and greatest does not necessarily bring greater musical truth. Accuracy, perhaps. But, as I think another thread here suggests, much is preference, most of it is colored in some way and it's just a question of which compromises you choose to live with.

Best,
Bill Hart

 

[Tonepub]

Can't really speak for anyone else...

I'm very happy with the way my system sounds these days. If I couldn't make another upgrade, I could live with the current system for good. And now that I've got a pair of rebuilt Quad 57's on the way, I've got a third system to fiddle with that is the equivalent of having that great vintage British sports car in the garage for a sunny day drive.

Probably the only thing I would change if I ever got the chance would be a strictly purpose built room like Mike Levigne has. That would be fun...

 

[Bill Hart]

Yep, the only difference is, your Quads won't leak oil....

 

[Tonepub]

Very true! And now that they've been fully rebuilt by Wayne at Quads Unlimited, I shouldn't have to think about em breaking...

(that's the hope) I've always regretted selling my 57's and now that I have enough room for them in another system, I'm really
looking forward to them.

 

[NorthStar]

Hi Northstar,

Just to clarify why I did what I did.

See Post 35 and 39. 39 was edited by the mod eliminating, if I recall correctly, some additional, cryptic language.

Yes, I can see that.

I have had several PM's from individuals who apparently understand my position.

To reiterate what I told Steve and Amir, this really is a great site.

Best,

Gordon

Gordon, that is great that you replied here, and what you just said above (under dark red emphasis) is good enough in my book for your return and forward participation/contribution. :b

Be Pro Active! Ya? :b

 

[Mike Lavigne]

i think that many audiophiles with what i will call 'mature' systems are quite satisfied with where they are, and even more importantly, the direction they have gone in. these people have reached a level where they are not looking for 90 degree turns, but are open to incremental improvements. they have done the 'heavy lifting' of discovery.

some are still trying to discover what they like, and the best way to achieve that.

others maybe are are not exactly aware of the point they are at on the decision tree.

personally; 8 years ago i decided to build a dedicated room. one would think that would result in a mature system. the reality was that i left a mature system in my previous home, and then spent 5-6 years trying to get back to where things were settled in the new room. i stepped back a couple of steps, to eventually get way beyond where i had been. the last couple of years it's been great and i'm enjoying the payoff of my efforts.

did i do the right thing? depends on when you ask me.

 

[amirm]

Hi Northstar,

Just to clarify why I did what I did.

See Post 35 and 39. 39 was edited by the mod eliminating, if I recall correctly, some additional, cryptic language.

I have had several PM's from individuals who apparently understand my position.

To reiterate what I told Steve and Amir, this really is a great site.

Best,

Gordon

Thank you Gordon and good to see you with us still.

Folks, let's not focus on each other but the technical topic. All members here have something to contribute or else we would not have a public forum . Let's uphold the WBF mission to be the friendliest place on the web to discuss technology. It is OK to disagree. Indeed, it is necessary in order to advance many of these topics. Thanks everyone for your help in this regard .

 

[thedudeabides]

Thank you Amir and others for your understanding and support. Additional PM's received today and responses sent.

Best,

Gordon

 

[MylesBAstor]

i think that many audiophiles with what i will call 'mature' systems are quite satisfied with where they are, and even more importantly, the direction they have gone in. these people have reached a level where they are not looking for 90 degree turns, but are open to incremental improvements. they have done the 'heavy lifting' of discovery.

some are still trying to discover what they like, and the best way to achieve that.

others maybe are are not exactly aware of the point they are at on the decision tree.

personally; 8 years ago i decided to build a dedicated room. one would think that would result in a mature system. the reality was that i left a mature system in my previous home, and then spent 5-6 years trying to get back to where things were settled in the new room. i stepped back a couple of steps, to eventually get way beyond where i had been. the last couple of years it's been great and i'm enjoying the payoff of my efforts.

did i do the right thing? depends on when you ask me.

For me, every improvement brings me one step closer to the music. The better one's system, the more one recognizes that the software-and I think this holds more for analog (tape and disc) than does digital-is far better than we previously thought. We've tapped but a fraction of the information contained in those record grooves or 15 or 30 ips tapes (and those with the 1/2 inch head stacks are even closer to the real event). Digital just does not seem to have as much of an upside as does analog. YMMV.

 

[Bill Hart]

We've tapped but a fraction of the information contained in those record grooves or 15 or 30 ips tapes (and those with the 1/2 inch head stacks are even closer to the real event). YMMV.

True, that, Myles. (BTW, hello). But, ironically, I'm gonna bet you are taiking about older records- and probably older phonorecords as well, not the 'remastered on audiophile vinyl' versions. (Although a few of those 45 rpm jobs are joy). If that has been your experience, doesn't that parallel the point here- that not all 'progress' gets us closer? FWIW, in my experience, those older records (and I'll include some stuff through the 70's and maybe ever later in pop music) can sound pretty amazing. I have in many instances, reassessed my prejudice against 'thin' records. I often find myself enjoying them more, sonically, if not musically, than the 'heavy' audiophile vinyl that is marketed as 'better.'

 

[DaveyF]

Jeff: I took the original question to mean is there a point where we are 'satisfied' or is this an endless quest? And if it is an endless quest, is it driven by a genuine need to improve the [fill in the blank: musicality, truthfulness, accuracy, transparency, etc.] of our audio reproduction system or is there something else going on? I'm no more immune to marketing than the next guy (or gal), and I get the idea of not wanting to be left behind-
"OMG, i just upgraded to the MkII version, hands-down a huge and dramatic improvement in X"
but, it seems like most of the people here have been around the block a few times, and are not necessarily going to buy the new X (or the upgrade) based on a mainstream review, or even a strong Internet buzz. (How many times have we seen a flavor of the month pre-amp, speaker, etc. that you couldn't live without, and that generated a huge buzz, just drop off the face of the planet).

Best,
Bill Hart

That pretty much sums up the initial question that I posted.
It does seem to me that many a'philes jump on the 'latest is greatest' bandwagon and are constantly swapping out gear because they don't know what they are really looking for..Not just in sound, but in type of gear as well.

Tim, Perhaps time to reduce the heat that you have been throwing Gordon's way...just a thought. ( I don't think he has a very strong flame suit )

 

[JackD201]

i think that many audiophiles with what i will call 'mature' systems are quite satisfied with where they are, and even more importantly, the direction they have gone in. these people have reached a level where they are not looking for 90 degree turns, but are open to incremental improvements. they have done the 'heavy lifting' of discovery.

some are still trying to discover what they like, and the best way to achieve that.

others maybe are are not exactly aware of the point they are at on the decision tree.

personally; 8 years ago i decided to build a dedicated room. one would think that would result in a mature system. the reality was that i left a mature system in my previous home, and then spent 5-6 years trying to get back to where things were settled in the new room. i stepped back a couple of steps, to eventually get way beyond where i had been. the last couple of years it's been great and i'm enjoying the payoff of my efforts.

did i do the right thing? depends on when you ask me.

You and I are on the same page Mike. Unfortunately some people see that gear and think the sound we get is all about the gear.

What they don't see is the hard work that goes into bringing the performance as close as possible to their potential as opposed to just working. It is a process that can take a lot of time and effort, in your and my cases, as well as others here, years.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

You and I are on the same page Mike. Unfortunately some people see that gear and think the sound we get is all about the gear.

What they don't see is the hard work that goes into bringing the performance as close as possible to their potential as opposed to just working. It is a process that can take a lot of time and effort, in your and my cases, as well as others here, years.

Jack,

how true.

enough is enough when it finally works. things 'lock in' and the music flows. in my case, the final pieces to the puzzle were making physical changes to my room (removing some bass trapping, and adding the Equi=tech) as well as speaker adjustments and adding some decoupling footers everywhere. the room changes were years in the making including lots of feedback and measuring. really no gear changes other than settle on a particular vinyl front end. it was just patience and being relentless. sure; i had expensive 'pretty' gear but it was getting it all to jell where the magic comes from.

 

[JackD201]

Same here Mike. Pretty much all the gear remained the same for three years, some almost twice that. When your MM7s arrive you'll be in for another round of tuning. I have no doubt you will be rewarded for your efforts down the road. Such is the path of the more involved hobbyist eh? No pain no gain.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

For me, every improvement brings me one step closer to the music. The better one's system, the more one recognizes that the software-and I think this holds more for analog (tape and disc) than does digital-is far better than we previously thought. We've tapped but a fraction of the information contained in those record grooves or 15 or 30 ips tapes (and those with the 1/2 inch head stacks are even closer to the real event). Digital just does not seem to have as much of an upside as does analog. YMMV.

amen to the continual discovery of more data from analog as the tools improve. the media seems almost unlimited in rewarding effort. 10-12 years ago i was just as interested in better digital as i was better analog. and hirez (both PCM and dsd) delivered. however; things have not changed since then with digital (in any meaningful way other than delivery systems)........but analog has taken many performance steps forward and continues to. to bring this back to the OT; as one's system matures it's the analog software/source gear advances where the system advances then come from and that keeps the passion burning.

not to say that better and better digital players/dac's are not being built; but if you compare the best from 10 years ago to the best today not much has changed.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Same here Mike. Pretty much all the gear remained the same for three years, some almost twice that. When your MM7s arrive you'll be in for another round of tuning. I have no doubt you will be rewarded for your efforts down the road. Such is the path of the more involved hobbyist eh? No pain no gain.

here's hoping.:b