Which to Choose?

[bblue]

Hi Bill
I don't know if you ultimately want to use your deck as playback only so...
About a year before I heard of the Tape Project I had my Technics !500 internally modified on the output path only. Premium caps, resistors, solid silver wire and WBT Next Gen silver output connectors with the work done at the Parts Connexion. Sound wise it was hard to believe that it was the same machine.
After the upgrade I took the deck elsewhere for a tune up. The tech swore he never heard such deep bass from his test tape. Though now the deck is used as a transport only it still has capability to playback through my tube Repro or to be reconfigured for solid state internal playback. So you can have your cake and eat it to!
I have been using a RS 1700 since @ 1980 and have never seen it or the 1500 ruin a tape. Speed stability is such that you can hear tape stretching on some of the used reels I have bought.
As for owners of the Technics decks if you still have the original 10 cent output jacks UPGRADE!!!

I'd have to agree with that!

For tapes in good condition and no splices the Technics path is fine. But 30+ year old studio masters with splices and paper leader are a different story altogether. The small radius turns on the tension guides will help peel off a weak splice, where on a PR99 type path it would go through with no problem -- a few times. Also a tape that sheds slightly will build up quite a bit of residue on the Technics (at least, mine) whereas it is minimal on a straighter path. Not a show stopper, just something you have to be wary of when working with certain tapes.

Have you compared the sonics of the audio path internal update to the external Repro? If so, how did they compare?

I'd have one machine optimized for playback, probably with an external preamp, and another just for recording.

--Bill

 

[microstrip]

Bill,
If you would like to read the full review form HFN-RR June 1978 contact me by PM. The PR99 mechanical performance is very similar to the B77.

 

[Asamel]

I would also mention the "performance upgrade" option available from Jcorder. If you like your Technics deck that might be a consideration.

 

[mep]

Micro-which one did MC pick as the winner? I like the tape path on the Sony the best. I'm not a fan of the old-style swinging arms.

 

[flez007]

I'd have one machine optimized for playback, probably with an external preamp, and another just for recording.

--Bill

I would just do that...

 

[bblue]

Bill,
If you would like to read the full review form HFN-RR June 1978 contact me by PM. The PR99 mechanical performance is very similar to the B77.

Thanks Micro,

I don't really put any faith in reviews written in the 70's since their evaluations are based on 70's thinking and listening through 70's equipment. Some 70's equipment was pretty decent, but others, not so much.

I've always heard that a PR99 IS a B77, just aimed at a the Pro market and with the addition of balanced inputs and outputs and possibly the digital counter (don't recall). It might even be argued that a B77 would be superior audio-wise due to a shorter path to unbalanced audio outs. Of course with either one, taking the output directly from the first head reproducer board and other mods would be the best audio.

--Bill

 

[bblue]

I finally bit the bullet and purchased a Studer A810 in good condition, and recently completely re-capped. Heads are in very good shape and it sounds 'decent' as-is. But not great. I know the Studer repro and line card electronics are not of the quality of Cello or Bottlehead, and I'll more than likely modify this with a switch that can switch the play head output to external jacks, but still preserve the internal playback. But for the moment the biggest problem is the line output cards have output transformers which have to go. Same with the record line input cards. The problem is finding them.

So if anyone is aware of a pair of transformerless line cards for the A810/820 I'd be very appreciative of a heads up. The board part number should be 1.820.815.00, with a piggyback board part number 1.820.862.00, at least according to the manual. I don't know if there are any custom variations to these, but if so I'd be interested in those as well.

Really a solid, great feeling transport with bunches of micro-processor controlled settings and options.

So far I'm pleased with it.

In the meantime I still have the three PR99's, a Techniques RS1500U and I picked up an Otari MX5050 B3 at a really good cost, and it too is in good condition overall except the heads are shot. So I'm looking for a set for it before I bother to re-cap it.

Fun and games. Lot's of ways to spend money!

--Bill

 

[flez007]

I finally bit the bullet and purchased a Studer A810 in good condition, and recently completely re-capped. Heads are in very good shape and it sounds 'decent' as-is. But not great. I know the Studer repro and line card electronics are not of the quality of Cello or Bottlehead, and I'll more than likely modify this with a switch that can switch the play head output to external jacks, but still preserve the internal playback. But for the moment the biggest problem is the line output cards have output transformers which have to go. Same with the record line input cards. The problem is finding them.

So if anyone is aware of a pair of transformerless line cards for the A810/820 I'd be very appreciative of a heads up. The board part number should be 1.820.815.00, with a piggyback board part number 1.820.862.00, at least according to the manual. I don't know if there are any custom variations to these, but if so I'd be interested in those as well.

Really a solid, great feeling transport with bunches of micro-processor controlled settings and options.

So far I'm pleased with it.

In the meantime I still have the three PR99's, a Techniques RS1500U and I picked up an Otari MX5050 B3 at a really good cost, and it too is in good condition overall except the heads are shot. So I'm looking for a set for it before I bother to re-cap it.

Fun and games. Lot's of ways to spend money!

--Bill

you will end-up challenging Ki as for the number of RtR decks in a room!

Enjoy!

 

[bblue]

you will end-up challenging Ki as for the number of RtR decks in a room!

Enjoy!

OH I hope not! My studio is getting pretty full just with three of them in here. One PR99 is in a rack right outside the door, and the Otari is still on the workbench in another room. Not quite sure where I'm going to put it, or even how I'm going to use it!

--Bill

 

[bblue]

But there IS a problem...

It seems that in their infinite wisdom, the folks at Studer decided that the playback head alignment adjustment screw can only be accessed if the box covering the heads is removed by four screws.

As I touch up alignment on most every tape I play (they are from a variety of sources) it is not exactly quick and easy to do when you have to remove the head cover each time.

I wonder if any one has or knows of a template for the top of the head cover that will indicate a precise point to drill a hole through two layers of fairly heavy aluminum, just large enough to get a small hex wrench in to adjust?

I guess it wouldn't be an issue if the only thing you played was from Tape Project (even though there is likely to be small differences from tape to tape depending on the particular machine that made the recording), but for my applications there's no such thing as stationary azimuth. Anyone with ideas?

--Bill

 

[Ki Choi]

It seems that in their infinite wisdom, the folks at Studer decided that the playback head alignment adjustment screw can only be accessed if the box covering the heads is removed by four screws.

As I touch up alignment on most every tape I play (they are from a variety of sources) it is not exactly quick and easy to do when you have to remove the head cover each time.

I wonder if any one has or knows of a template for the top of the head cover that will indicate a precise point to drill a hole through two layers of fairly heavy aluminum, just large enough to get a small hex wrench in to adjust?

I guess it wouldn't be an issue if the only thing you played was from Tape Project (even though there is likely to be small differences from tape to tape depending on the particular machine that made the recording), but for my applications there's no such thing as stationary azimuth. Anyone with ideas?

--Bill

You don't need to remove the entire headcover assembly to get to the azimuth adjustment screw for the repro head. You can remove just two screws left and right of the flip down head shield to get to the heads.

As for adjusting azimuth for each tape... is like tweaking VTA on a tonearm for each record... if you have the time and patience, go for it. But I would recommend leaving the head azimuth alone if it is set correctly by monitoring X-Y plot on an o'scope for coarse and fine azimuth adjustment tracks from the MRL calibration tape, IMHO.

Ki

 

[tony ky ma]

Hi Bill
I did post some pictures of change A810's out put into tube in here, and the result is very positive, maybe you can take a look of that
tony ma

 

[U47]

'Put a Bird on it'

and call it Art. That is a little skit from a show about our fair city called 'Portlandia' Your comments about 'sticking a tube in it' and you all of a sudden have 'hifi' made me think of that skit. It is patently a load of bull that tubes are necessary to enjoy music on reel. Squalid state or valves are both fine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XM3vWJmpfo

Rich Brown
Stumptown

 

[bblue]

You don't need to remove the entire headcover assembly to get to the azimuth adjustment screw for the repro head. You can remove just two screws left and right of the flip down head shield to get to the heads.

Ki,
Are you talking about the two at the rear of the cover assembly that support the hinge assemblies of the flip down shield? If so, you'd effectively be removing that flip down assembly, so it can be just lifted out to align?

As for adjusting azimuth for each tape... is like tweaking VTA on a tonearm for each record... if you have the time and patience, go for it. But I would recommend leaving the head azimuth alone if it is set correctly by monitoring X-Y plot on an o'scope for coarse and fine azimuth adjustment tracks from the MRL calibration tape, IMHO.

Thanks, but I disagree. I monitor with XY from all sources, but especially tape since even the slightest mismatch of azimuth between the tape being played and the current head setting will significantly alter HF detail, depth and timbre. Just because my machine might be MRL aligned, doesn't mean the tape from another studio matches it. In fact, they can vary quite a bit. Even if made on the same machine same studio but on a different day.

On my main PR99 I have a hex-based tool for play alignment which I made that indicates an MRL cal position and then equally based 'points' either direction as a reference. This is a common practice in good mastering facilities and is crucial for best transfer.

--Bill

 

[bblue]

Hi Bill
I did post some pictures of change A810's out put into tube in here, and the result is very positive, maybe you can take a look of that
tony ma

Thanks Tony. Do you have a link?

--Bill

 

[tony ky ma]

Hi Bill
If you like to do the modification of R2R's amp, I did post the PR99 and A80 RC and A80 VU too. you can kick my name and search the post started by me, maybe can help you a bite
enjoy tony ma

 

[bblue]

Hi Bill
If you like to do the modification of R2R's amp, I did post the PR99 and A80 RC and A80 VU too. you can kick my name and search the post started by me, maybe can help you a bite
enjoy tony ma

Tony, I found your posts on the pr99 mods as well as the A80's, but could find nothing on the A810. Only a mention in one of the others that it was similar to mods you had done to an 810.

--Bill

 

[tony ky ma]

Bill
The title is modify Studer A810 with vacuum tube
date 09-19-2010

tony ma

 

[bblue]

Tony, I found your posts on the pr99 mods as well as the A80's, but could find nothing on the A810. Only a mention in one of the others that it was similar to mods you had done to an 810.

Nevermind, I found it.

It looks like the tube output stage you used was basically a cathode follower for low impedance output? What prevented you taking a medium impedance output right from the output of the repro amp?

--Bill

 

[tony ky ma]

That is a mu stage amp circuit in high in put impedance ( 50K) and low out put impedance around 200 ohm, so there will not problem from repro amp, because it is close to the repro pre amp do not need long wire to link and it is my first try to use tube in mods of R2R and try to keep it inside to the machine, but later in A80, to use a basic out put circuit of triode tube (WE437A) and silver wound transformer sound much much better (but can not be build in side no space ) and also change all the coupling caps into better quality of the stock part of repro pre amp which I keep in original and also those are too big has put it on out side too, this is what I did so far, I will rebuild the A810 again in future after finish the project on hand now ( combine Telefuken M15's transport and Studer B62's amp togetter
tony ma