Who's the king of the flat panels?

[amirm]

Has there been a review of it?

Price wise, it is even more expensive than Nuvision ($7K to $9K for 50 inch). I am still wondering how people are willing to pay those kind of prices.

 

[Chizzap30]

Some people are willing to pay them when they are looking for a set based on accurate video reproduction. Pricing, to some, is irrelevant. It all depends on what one values.

 

[DaveyF]

I am still ultra impressed with my Pioneer 50" PDP 5050PHD Plasma. With the cable card ( NOT cable box, which IMHO seriously degrades the picture..probably due in part to a poor/Additional interface) I have seen many a jaw drop!

 

[rhopkins]

After much soul searching and some time investigating the quality of panels we decided that the 65" Panasonic was the current king. The best picture quality all things considered. We did consider Runco and that would have been a good choice given the superior image but they don't have great support here and they are a bit fussy. The Panasonic has it's own issues (the first one blew up about five weeks after purchase but given they replaced it with a new one the following day, I can't complain...) but it's a good product. The 3D is interesting too.

The NuVision has superior detail but can't do motion as well and because it's edge lit it has hot spots in the corners. Still a beautiful set though. Much nicer physically than the Panasonic which is dull and boring...

 

[amirm]

Thanks for the update. Picking between these technologies has never been harder. Since this thread started, we became a dealer for NuVision after I did an evaluation of one of their units. I find the build quality way ahead of existing products. Compared to Samsung for example, the case and stand are far more sturdy. And the frame as you say, minimalistic and elegant. What's more, you can get it painted to any color you want. We currently have a 50 inch in our showroom that when turned off, turns into a mirror. With a black frame around it, it doesn't look like a TV at all, solving the "black glass" problem of traditional displays when off.

It is video performance was quite good. Not perfect but quite good. It is the right product for people who care about its architectural appeal.

 

[rhopkins]

I would have paid triple the money for the Panasonic plasma in the NuVision frame. I'm an architect and it hurts to buy something cheap and plastic when the alternative is so elegant... The mirror set is super!

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

The mass market king is the Panasonic VT-25. The silly expensive king is the Runco, but the diminishing returns are huge and most of them are swept away by a good calibration. For all of the reasons Amir laid out, and a few more, LCD/LED technology is still evolving, getting all the notice for its well-publicized "advances," and, in truth, still playing catch up. Plasma is still better, and has an even greater edge in 3D, where the 600hz refresh rate vs. 240 puts it in another league.

The brightness issue is a paper tiger. Unless you intend to put your TV on a sunporch, they'll all need to be dialed back a bit at home, but In the big stores, where they're all set at maximum brightness the LCD/LEDs show better. Brighter looks clearer, similar to the way a bit louder sounds "better." It's not.

The worst picture quality of all is a projector, unfortunately. An entry-level 720p plasma is better than a very expensive projector, even in a dark room. Open the shades and the projector is much worse than an aging DLP. But they're big.

Tim

 

[Mobiusman]

I have resisted contributing to this thread because I did not want to engage in any additional controversy beyond that which seems to find me, but alas, last night I had an experience while watching TV, if you can call FIOS through a Pioneer Elite Pro Kuro 50" hooked up to my main system, TV. I am a member of the camp that the best flat screen disappeared when Pioneer left the plasma sector, although Panasonic bought the Elite factory and uses the same technology for their Signature 50 and 60. I have had mine for 18 months and never, I mean never fail to get excited when I sit down to watch something because it sucks you in and the depth and colors are so believable.

But then what good is a screen without good programming, or at least high quality images. Enter FIOS, which I had installed two days ago and am still exploring after having Comcast, Cablevision and Dish. It is simply not fair to compare because FIOS is in a league by itself especially when using the Pioneer as the video display. Yes I know that it is basically 1080i compared to BluRay 1080p and therefore the Blu Ray should be better, and maybe it is as far as pure video output. But watching TV is about the total experience and keeping the annoying attention diverters to a minimum and that is where FIOS excels. It's interface is clearly the best in the industry and lightening fast unlike cable and satellite. There is so much to it that I have not yet mastered it after two days.

But what makes watching video with FIOS on a Pioneer Elite Kuru so special is something that is rarely talked about, the sound and its linkage to your computer. What I did not realize is that yes the FIOS is dedicated fiber to the house and then copper inside, BUT it also the FIOS wireless network in the house with a very powerful wireless router that is capable of sending signals 700 feet so I can use my computer on the deck and boat. Yeah I am excited to be getting 15Mb/sec downloads consistently so I can watch You Tube, Quick Time and WMP without buffering pauses, but it is the part of the wireless that FIOS dose not talk about that is amazing----The ability to link your computer to your FIOS box via wireless and be able to send anything that you can do on your computer, video and/or sound to the FIOS box and then to your system, including your trusty Pioneer. Gee did I just describe a interim digital music server directly to my main system that, btw, may just be almost as good sounding as my BluRay, CD and way better than ANY iPod--You bet I did.

Last night while trying to program my favorites on my remote, "This Is It" was on Starz. While more a source of inspiration than outrageous audio, or so I thought, along came the portion with the redo of the Thriller video and a reflex increase in volume to stadium levels. Well I was not ready for what befell my woofers and subs, and then neither was my next door neighbor who called to wonder if I had any idea what was causing her house to shake (It is cold in NJ right now and all windows are closed so all that she got was the pressure wave from my walls and windows hitting her house. I actually enjoyed it better than the Blu Ray version on the same system, possibly because when I decided to replay the segment and reannoy my neighbor, who is a pain in general, the response was as fast as I could hit the keys, definitely not the case with BluRay.

I guess what I am trying to say is that what makes the best panel is more than technology. In opinion it is the total experience, and for that there is no comparison to the Pioneer IMHO for image supplied by FIOS.

 

[rhopkins]

One interesting thing to note is that the NuVision panel apparently uses a Runco video processor (I think this is what it is called...). I think this is why it has exceptional clarity and detail. This lead to a discussion of an outboard controller for the Panasonic panel and what gains that might have. In the end, the dealer didn't think it would be worth it and brought up the poor local support issue for Runco. I don't think there is a dealer in Ottawa at all and I'm not sure if there is one in Montreal which is two hours away and in another province.

Something else I was told, and I have no idea if this is true or not, but apparently many of the new super-slim panels have parts fused right to the edge of the panel. When something goes wrong, it's difficult if not impossible to repair because of the tight integration. This is done to lower the price of the unit. I'm not sure if this is why when the Panasonic panel gave up they just brought a new one and replaced it. It did go away quickly and quietly... I have no idea if NuVision does this with their super-slim panels.

 

[rhopkins]

I guess what I am trying to say is that what makes the best panel is more than technology. In opinion it is the total experience, and for that there is no comparison to the Pioneer IMHO for image supplied by FIOS.

I'll second that. If Pioneer was still making them, I wouldn't even need to look. They were obviously the best and still beat the black levels of the best Panasonic panels.

We have a similar service coming to our area and it sounds fantastic however, it's not ready for video yet apparently. They call it FIBE but it sounds like the same idea. Fiber optic cable to the house and then wireless or copper after that. They are promising 1080i without compression and perhaps 1080p but there is so little information on it yet and when you call it's obvious the staff don't know anything about it beyond, "it's our next generation of content delivery" - or something like that.

Marketing speak for we don't know what it is either but someday soon we are going to sell it...

 

[rhopkins]

The mass market king is the Panasonic VT-25. The silly expensive king is the Runco, but the diminishing returns are huge and most of them are swept away by a good calibration. For all of the reasons Amir laid out, and a few more, LCD/LED technology is still evolving, getting all the notice for its well-publicized "advances," and, in truth, still playing catch up. Plasma is still better, and has an even greater edge in 3D, where the 600hz refresh rate vs. 240 puts it in another league.
Tim

Exactly what the dealer told me. Wait a year until the panel burns in. Once a year they have a calibration guy that flies in and does his thing. He visits all the plasma customers that want the service and keep it as good as it can be. All things considered and at a cost of less than $4,000 it was pretty hard to come up with an argument for anything else - and I tried! I really tried.