why lower noise? how low noise and lower distortion relate.

Okay, Gary!

I don't. With some pieces of equipment, a spike sounds better pointing UP (can make quite a hole in the chassis). So, if you buy anything second-hand from me, be prepared to find lots of holes on the bottom :p

I suppose holes on the bottom could attract cool air and resolve some of those pesky ventilation requirements - LOL :rolleyes:
 
Mike (Lavgine),

Could you compare the A10-U8's to other products you may have used in the past? pods, spikes, damping plates, cones, etc? Thanks for any guidance...i am always up for a trial...but at 700 per quad, it is worth doing some homework first! i am confident they are amazing products by the sheer number of experienced audiophiles who have said nothing but good things about them...but your specific notes would be appreciated. thanks!
 
Mike (Lavgine),

Could you compare the A10-U8's to other products you may have used in the past? pods, spikes, damping plates, cones, etc? Thanks for any guidance...i am always up for a trial...but at 700 per quad, it is worth doing some homework first! i am confident they are amazing products by the sheer number of experienced audiophiles who have said nothing but good things about them...but your specific notes would be appreciated. thanks!
Hmmm, I wonder ...

I've just looked at the website's explanation for these and that, and the types of materials used leave me scratching my head a bit. I'm sure it will work, do the job that it claims to do, with more refined systems, but I tend to think that a more conventional type of damping arrangement will be just as effective, if not more so. If nothing else, using alternative, more "scientific" techniques will be a hell of a lot cheaper!

To my mind, using the correct grade of an appropriate viscoelastic material in the correct manner will do the job just as well, and minimise the "creep", or slumping, problem.

Or have you already tried this sort of thing, Mike, and found it wanting?

Frank
 
Hmmm, I wonder ...

I've just looked at the website's explanation for these and that, and the types of materials used leave me scratching my head a bit. I'm sure it will work, do the job that it claims to do, with more refined systems, but I tend to think that a more conventional type of damping arrangement will be just as effective, if not more so. If nothing else, using alternative, more "scientific" techniques will be a hell of a lot cheaper!

To my mind, using the correct grade of an appropriate viscoelastic material in the correct manner will do the job just as well, and minimise the "creep", or slumping, problem.

Or have you already tried this sort of thing, Mike, and found it wanting?

Frank

Well as they say Frank, the proof is in the pudding. Mike speaks the truth. They are among a mere handful of isolation devices worth using.

And no. In my experience, viscoelastic devices such as sorbothane, etc. don't make it. Wish they did. In fact, they kill the sound. The only place I could imagine them working is in a very bright system, but certainly not in a well balanced system.
 
Well as they say Frank, the proof is in the pudding. Mike speaks the truth. They are among a mere handful of isolation devices worth using.

And no. In my experience, viscoelastic devices such as sorbothane, etc. don't make it. Wish they did. In fact, they kill the sound. The only place I could imagine them working is in a very bright system, but certainly not in a well balanced system.
Fair enough. Though what do you mean by, "kill the sound"? Is that: reduce the level of upper midrange and treble, or reduce the dynamics, or cloud the sound, or what?

You see, I've got a hunch that some systems are "over bright" because of problems, and they are toned down initially by cables and other means. Then you add viscoelastic, and this actually fixes some of the problems, but makes you aware of what the cables are doing to the sound, which is to deaden some of the "over brightness". So now the system is far too lifeless, really because of what the cables, etc are doing, but people say, aha, viscoelastic material is no good for systems ...

Now this is only a hunch, mind you ...:)

Frank
 
Fair enough. Though what do you mean by, "kill the sound"? Is that: reduce the level of upper midrange and treble, or reduce the dynamics, or cloud the sound, or what?

You see, I've got a hunch that some systems are "over bright" because of problems, and they are toned down initially by cables and other means. Then you add viscoelastic, and this actually fixes some of the problems, but makes you aware of what the cables are doing to the sound, which is to deaden some of the "over brightness". So now the system is far too lifeless, really because of what the cables, etc are doing, but people say, aha, viscoelastic material is no good for systems ...

Now this is only a hunch, mind you ...:)

Frank

Kill = all of the above.
 
Mike (Lavgine),

Could you compare the A10-U8's to other products you may have used in the past? pods, spikes, damping plates, cones, etc? Thanks for any guidance...i am always up for a trial...but at 700 per quad, it is worth doing some homework first! i am confident they are amazing products by the sheer number of experienced audiophiles who have said nothing but good things about them...but your specific notes would be appreciated. thanks!

sorry for the delay in response; i had a friend over late for a listening session last night.

i've been somewhat of a tweaker for most of my 17+ years as a serious audiophile. i have sold off some of the various products i've acquired over the years, but i still have a cabinet full of various tweaks. i view anything not a piece of electronics, or a speaker, or a cable......as a tweak. but even though i'm a tweaker, my audio/music loving culture is based on a system having 'good bones'. you cannot tweak yourself to happiness. if you have a bunch of colored components, whether too smooth and golden, or too clinical and sterile, then you are always going to be fighting color, balancing instead of improving performance.....and you cannot win. gear must be essentially neutral and natural of itself. then you can mate it with other gear with that characteristic and it works. so the main focus for me is to get the right 'bones'. you have to deal correctly with the foundation first.

which is why i built a dedicated room; i tried to tweak a conventional room and ultimately it became the limitation. it's why i installed the Equi=tech isolation transformer, because trying to fix dirty power at the gear becomes a trade-off.

i'll try to describe my history of mechanical tweaks. i've found that every piece of gear can be somewhat improved by optimizing the impedence between the gear and the rack/floor/place it sits upon. sometimes just a little and sometimes alot.

so all that said, 5 years ago i purchased the Grand Prix Audio Monaco racks with the Formula shelves to get away from mechanical isolation tweaks. the Grand Prix used a de-coupling frame, de-coupling Apex footers, and tunable shelves for individual pieces of electronics. tuning was from choosing the correct compliance sorbothane disc for the weight of each component. you might even use one value on one corner and a different value in the other corners. you could tune the shelf to optimize any piece of gear. wonderful. and it worked. you did need to use new discs once every year as they would compress and lose their compliance over time. i was able to use the Grand Prix 'naked'.....without any additional tweaks.

up until the GPA rack i used numerous different mechanical tweaks.......all kinds of spikes, wood blocks, numerous different footers including Black Diamond Racing shelves and spikes, shelves such as the Svelt Shelf, i've had Stillpoints under 4 different turntables, aurios of various types and others. i also tried a Halcyonics active isolation shelf, and i still have a magnetic levitation shelf i use under my music server upstairs.

which brings us to the Wave Kinetics A10-U8's. as far as isolation for gear; they are the best thing i have found which is able to be optimized for any type of gear. they can be moved around easily. i've only found one situation where they offered too much isolation. and they exceeded what the Grand Prix did clearly. and when i moved them to my Adona rack; i've had at least equal performance, likely just a little better.

technology marches on. the same guy who did the science on the NVS turntable, designed the A10-U8's.
 
i agree with Myles regarding the general use of any 'soft' material as the primary means of isolation/decoupling. i'll relate it to a tonearm bearing, which is easy to think about....you need to have the tonearm 'grounded', yet also deal with resonance. the tonearm needs 'leverage' to sound energetic, to express transients with snap, and flow.

the goal is to connect gear but also decouple from resonance, so the gear speaks and chassis and rack does not add it's own 'song' to the music.

if a 'system' of isolation includes a 'soft' component and it's engineered in, it can be effective. i can think of numerous products which use that approach. actually; the A10 U8's are like that too. they have an aluminum base, then a specific amount of small ball bearings captured inside a silicone mould. the silicone by itself would not work, but as a part of the 'system' it works. and silicone will not lose it's ability to cushion. if used at over a certain weight; the A10 U8's can become relatively compressed, and it also might have something to do with heat. but they can be massaged back to optimal condition.
 
Thanks, Mike. Interesting, Myles uses the A10-U8s on his new GAT preamp.
 

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