Why, oh why, does vinyl continue to blow away digital?

[Rexp]

Off the top of my head here are some nice 2024 releases

Ill Considered “Precipice”
Charles Lloyd “The Sky Will Still Be There Tomorrow”
Francisco Mela “Music Frees Our Souls, Vol 3”
Luke Stewart “Unknown Rivers”
Anthony Wilson “Hackensack West”

Thanks! Will take a listen on Tidal. Out of interest , what is your digital player?

 

[morricab]

One DDD ECM recording please?

Continuum - ECM Records

After three studio albums (Stoa, 2006, Holon,2008, and Lyria, 2010) plus one live-double-cd (2012) with his electric band RONIN Swiss keyboardist/composer Nik Bärtsch now presents a new album with his original group MOBILE (whose line-up overlaps with the current RONIN cast). MOBILE, originally...

ecmrecords.com

The Other Side - ECM Records

“This is the chill-out as a state of grace, and it can go as deep as you like. Sublime,” wrote the Independent on Sunday of the Gustavsen’s trio’s Being There, released in 2007. Over the last decade Tord has explored other ensemble forms and formats, but on The Other Side – recorded at Oslo’s...

ecmrecords.com

Blue Maqams - ECM Records

Released on the occasion of Anouar Brahem’s 60th birthday, Blue Maqams offers many reasons to celebrate. Recorded in New York’s Avatar Studios in May 2017 and produced by Manfred Eicher, it brings the Tunisian oud master together with three brilliant improvisers: the “Maqams” of the title refers...

ecmrecords.com

I give you three!

 

[rDin]

So, is it the release, the format, the gear, the recording? I've tough about it a lot, I researched it, developed products and traveled around to speak with the most informed people I could meet, and after all of that, if my life depended on that, I still couldn't give you a simple or definitive answer.

The perfect encapsulation of the experience of many here... hence the discussion

 

[wil]

It is certainly one of the drums that a certain someone constantly beats. I think that only goes so far. There are no 1's and 0's on a vinyl record, the lathe that cuts the vinyl master is an analog machine and the stylus travels in a continuous physical groove. An element of production may be digital but reproduction is 100% analog. Our ears do not hear 1's and 0's. There are analog elements to digital production -- I could be snarky and say that is why digital is tolerable but I'm not saying that.

When someone says “I could be snarky and say…” —it’s just a duplicitous way of being snarky after all.
If you’re definition of the best digital only meets the low watermark of “tolerable,” it means you’ve never listened to good digital.

 

[Audiohertz2]

As I have mentioned many, many, many times before over the last few decades, the dominant factor when it comes to the reproduction of music with home audio systems is neither the format (analog or digital) nor the equipment…..it is the Mastering of the source material that matters the most and what dictates the resultant sound quality to the greatest extent.

This is easy to prove to oneself:make a decision of which of two home stereo audio systems is superior. Take two separate mastered versions of the same recording, with one being readily noticeably superior to the other. Play the superior mastered copy, in whatever format on the “inferior” stereo audio system and the inferior mastered recording, in what ever format, on the stereo audio system deemed to be “superior” and you will hear that the higher resultant playback quality of the music follows the superior mastered recording. Easy theory to out to the test and derive conclusions from.

In other words, the sound quality of the source material governs the resultant sound quality of the reproduced sound during playback.

All academic that Recording and mastering quality has to be top notch for both , regardless you are not gonna get rid of the electronic zing of digital that easy vs analog playback ..

Its there for those sensitive to it ...!

 

[Audiohertz2]

And those records have sat for 40 years with greasy fingerprints that have melted the vinyl. Thank you for making my point that the old original AAA that is coming on the market is damaged and inferior. Not worth playing. Throw it out and chalk it up as anothet lost $40 on Discogs trying to find vintage media that is quality.

Not getting you , melted vinyl .?

 

[RCanelas]

The perfect encapsulation of the experience of many here... hence the discussion

If the participants are not interested in relatives and shades of gray, but insist in black and white absolutes when there are none to be found, no matter how much one wish for them, what exactly are we discussing, really? Is it really even a discussion? If participants are mostly ignorant about the side they are trying to debate against, is it really a debate?

It's just short of guerrilla warfare tactics, not discussion, no?

 

[Lagonda]

And those records have sat for 40 years with greasy fingerprints that have melted the vinyl. Thank you for making my point that the old original AAA that is coming on the market is damaged and inferior. Not worth playing. Throw it out and chalk it up as anothet lost $40 on Discogs trying to find vintage media that is quality.

Nonsense, lots of well preserved well kept records around at decent prices. In Scandinavia and Germany some people are anal about cleaning and storing their records, just don't buy Grateful Dead records from stoners ! Most of my classical records have never been played ! Not even by me !

 

[Carlos269]

Not getting you , melted vinyl .?

If you control 1) the mastering of the source material or 2) the transfer function of the stereo audio reproduction system, you can do just about anything you want to adjust the resultant sound presentation.

In one of my systems, I do both 1) and 2) and I’m able to dial in the resultant sound to match my desired sound. 1) is intended for the recordings and 2) is intended for the systems.

 

[Audiohertz2]

@Lagonda..

Yes classical can do that to you , the same 3 all the time ...

 

[Lagonda]

Why I don’t jump into such Digital Vs analog arguments, here is an example of analog guy gets convinced by digital guy to make the jump to the “upgrade” streamer and digitally sourced LPs. Digital guy can’t recognise real, thinks all is (Ana)log

Thats Fremer !

 

[Lagonda]

Today i really miss a good CD . I am burning in some nasty sounding tubes in my phono amp, continuously playing a record with my Grand Crue Elite at about 3 $ an hour, with no sound. I could use a nice reverse RIAA CD !

 

[Al M.]

“The lady doth protest too much, methinks” is a quote from Shakespeare’s , “Hamlet”, that people often use to imply that when a person excessively claims something isn’t true, it usually means the opposite. I wonder if the reverse might be true as well?

It is so funny that certain vinyl enthusiasts like you can't just let it go.

Somehow you and some other fellow enthusiasts constantly need to feel confirmed in the alleged superiority of your subjective perceptions and tastes, and therefore demand that everyone should have the same subjective perceptions as you are. If they do not, you accuse them of denialism.

I have never demanded that vinyl enthusiasts change their preference in favor of digital. They have their own subjective preference. Who am I to argue? Live and let live.

But it seems that certain vinyl enthusiasts always want to argue with the subjective preference of others.

This is not about objective truth like 2 + 2 = 4 where there is no room for opinions or "preferences" about it.

I have had many hundreds of hours of an informative, enjoyable experience of vinyl in friends' systems over the years, and I continue to enjoy vinyl very much.

And yes, in the past I have shared a preference for the sound of vinyl.

 

[jazdoc]

Thanks! Will take a listen on Tidal. Out of interest , what is your digital player?

SimMoon Andromeda CDP. BTW, a nice sounding 2024 jazz CD is a debut: "Riley" by Riley Mullherkar

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Can you name some recent well recorded Jazz albums? Thanks!

some have already gone there. @jazdoc is my most relied on source for great sounding new jazz. and he has offered a few here. here are few others not mentioned. i would recommend checking out each artist for other recordings.

these are all Lp's. but they are all mostly streaming too.

Geri Allen Trio, "Twenty One" & "Flying Toward the Sound"
Christian McBride, "Big Band".....and others
Wojtek Mazolewski Quintet, "Spirit To All", "Polka", & "When Angles Fall"
Cecile McLorin Salvant, "Dreams and Daggars" & "Melusine"....and others
Gregory Porter, "Be Good" & "All Rise"
Bill Frisell, "Four" & "Valentine"
Kirsten Edkins, "Shapes & Sound"
Ferit Odman , "Dameronia With Strings"
Joscho Stephan Trio, "Paris-Berlin"

i could keep going all day long.

there are many, many others. and many that i only find on streaming and have not pursued the vinyl.

 

[rDin]

If the participants are not interested in relatives and shades of gray, but insist in black and white absolutes when there are none to be found, no matter how much one wish for them, what exactly are we discussing, really? Is it really even a discussion? If participants are mostly ignorant about the side they are trying to debate against, is it really a debate?

It's just short of guerrilla warfare tactics, not discussion, no?

If that were true, but I'd argue that's a mischaracterisation of what's happening here. Yes, there are some partisan voices, but there is also genuine curiosity and a willingness to explore the topic being discussed.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

If that were true, but I'd argue that's a mischaracterisation of what's happening here. Yes, there are some partisan voices, but there is also genuine curiosity and a willingness to explore the topic being discussed.

there will always be people caught up in dogma. beliefs. we all do it in degrees. you do have to commit a certain degree for sanity's sake to relax and enjoy. but silo's do get erected around those beliefs too, and that is where it retards exchange of ideas.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

a comment about the upside of digital streaming relative to great recordings; how might that play out? i just want to share an experience i am in the middle of which i view as game changing.

a month ago a couple hifi travelers from Oz visited me on the way to the Munich High End show. we had a great time, they had also visited me 9 years ago last time they went to Munich. one of them was able to share his 'Tidal' playlist with me. he went into my Tidal app on and added his playlist. this playlist is 'alive'. he has Tidal adding to it each week, based on the algorithm of his listening profile. so now i'm enjoying this expanding playlist. some get added, some fall off, but it's now 174 tracks, 14+ hours. as i go through it i add stuff to my play lists. i'll let it play for a few hours and stop it here and there. and his tastes are close enough to mine for it to be relevant. yet it's new fresh recordings i likely otherwise would not get to hear. no doubt it helps having digital that you already love that really can make the digital sound superb.

initially i was not that positive about this, but i have found it to be wonderful.

i've not looked to see how i could get this set up for myself based on my listening yet. but it is a real thing.

 

[Rensselaer]

It is so funny that certain vinyl enthusiasts like you can't just let it go.

I believe I requested a reference for your claim (that when digital marketing claims their digital sounds more like analogue, that they are only doing so to appease audiophiles who compare everything to analogue). “I” can’t let it go?

Somehow you and some other fellow enthusiasts constantly need to feel confirmed in the alleged superiority of your subjective perceptions and tastes, and therefore demand that everyone should have the same subjective perceptions as you are. If they do not, you accuse them of denialism.

All I ever claimed was that the best mastered analogue tape to vinyl sounds more real to me than the best analogue tape to DSD to DAC to analogue to vinyl, when both start from the same analogue master tape. I never accused anyone of “denialism” , but did suggest that because one of the attendees of my blind listening tests preferred the digitally modified version, that, if honest in his selection, we must hear differently.

But it seems that certain vinyl enthusiasts always want to argue with the subjective preference of others.

See above paragraph.

You have written many times that you have finally put together a digital system that betters all the analogue systems you have spent “hours” at friends listening to. It was just because you keep repeating this over and over and over again that I mentioned the quote from Hamlet; “the woman doth protest too much, methinks”.

 

[Al M.]

See above paragraph. You have written many times that you have finally put together a digital system that betters all the analogue systems you have spent “hours” at friends listening to. It was just because you keep repeating this over and over and over again that I mentioned the quote from Hamlet; “the woman doth protest too much, methinks” (meaning I think you are trying to convince yourself).

I didn't say that it "betters" vinyl. It's just my own preference. I don't try to convince myself, it's just what I like.

Of course, if you constantly misinterpret what I am actually saying we get nowhere. I guess this discussion between us is over, continuing is pointless.

BTW, funny that you deleted your previous post that I replied to.