sorry. i misunderstood. your message did not say 'digital', but in the context of your post i can see that you meant that. i will get a few of those together as soon as i can.
Why, oh why, does vinyl continue to blow away digital?
- Thread starter godofwealth
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The debate over "missing information" in digital aside:
The assumption here is that vinyl does not suffer as much from missing information as is alleged for digital. Yet vinyl suffers from the introduction of a variety of errors that cause information to be missing compared to the original. See post #631 by RCancelas, where he lists all the ways errors get introduced in the process of producing and playing back vinyl (and in his view exceed the errors of the digital process by quite a margin):
Why, oh why, does vinyl continue to blow away digital?
Even now 20 years later, Pete Millett’s presentation is an easy and an accessible way for many to learn about audio electronic distortions: The Sound of Distortion Pete’s presentation will help others for decades to come. I will add that everything in audio has a transfer function and just...www.whatsbestforum.com
Yes Al, this is the argument. My question is do the two formats start out with the same amount of information? If they do not, different degrees of loss down the path may still result in different amounts of information at the end. I am curios to hear from those who know more about this.
My only point in quoting Mike’s good post is the lack of tribal warfare behavior in its tone.
Tribes, gangs????
Not true at all. People can wake up one day and decide to completely switch approaches, pivoting 180 degrees.
My evolution: Solid state all Pass Labs boxes to SET all Lamm boxes. Magico cone speakers to vintage corner horns. Expensive name brand audio file cables to old inexpensive common cables.
Regarding media: I was 100% CDs for five years and then had both formats for a decade. Now I am all vinyl but still have my CDP. I plug it in occasionally.
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Aren’t we discussing that Digital is actually still seeking to perfect an approximation? The claims for perfection are 40 years old, but that was debunked as it is clearly still evolving, as is vinyl, though IMO at a slower pace as it is already very developed.
I cannot count the times that I have been called anti-vinyl, against all evidence (which is there if people would follow what I actually say). It appears that if you are strongly 'pro' something, some people interpret this as being 'anti' something else.
vinyl recording and mastering has variations. so any result is possible.
but when i generally compare my vinyl to my tapes. it's rare that there is a case of missing or added information. there can be slight tonal shifts maybe, or more or less bass in particular ways. which maybe are mastering choices.....although sometimes they are close to indistinguishable. but these days 30-40% of the vinyl pressings are right there with the tape in performance across a wide variety of tapes.
i might agree that errors in the process of mastering for digital are minimal. but that's not where that happens with digital........the significant difference making errors is mostly in the original recording, and most of them are sins of omission. it's leaving degrees of things out. see Bernie's comments in the video from post #649.
hope it happens.
fair enough.
somehow missed this post until now. sorry.
Hi Dave,
I appreciate that a generalization was not your point here.
But I like your point, so I am running with it to suggest that I think it's true generally that audiophiles listening together in the same room results in lower variance of subjective opinion than the variance resulting from internet keyboard warrioring.
agree. listening together is ideal. nothing else comes even close.
in two weeks the local audio club with 25 members will be here. analog verses digital is always a main theme. this will be the first group to do that compare with Wadax Level 4 on hand. the only other recent Wadax Level 4 group (2 guys) we did only digital, not vinyl.
with 25 in my room, the environment is not completely optimized for the most settled listening, but it's still very good. I have the space. we will see how the comments go. most of these guys/gals have been here multiple times. so know the system. I did not have the new Wadax Ref Power Supply, or the new Akasa DC cables last summer. so big difference.
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personally I think listening with local friends who know my system, and we know each other's biases, is the most productive environment possible. these are my favorite moments of 30 years as an audiophile. I've been lucky to have had a few groups like that over the years.
in these situations the experience can be additive in terms of learning progress.
I know I'm not unique with this perspective.
it might take some time to get on the same vibe but it happens. and no, I don't view 25 people as a workable group for that expectation. best case, herding cats.
Agreed but to a point. Those that offer honest and non-biased observations help one to advance. Those that are awe inspired every time are a differing story.
Tom
I was actually thinking about the first process, the microphone to the first conversion and storage. How much loss is there in each case?
Ron, do you think audio files visiting audio shows generally have the same opinions while they’re listening to music in a show room together? It seems from all the reports I read that opinions vary dramatically.
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This is so incorrect.
Brad and I were planar fans before moving to horns. DDk owned Apogees and Krell. Bill Focal Stella Utopia with Grande Utopia being his dream speaker till he heard Pnoes with Mayer and Vyger RS in G's system. Audioquattr, PeterA, and byrdparis were all SS Magico before moving to horns. Tima and BobVin were Wilson, as was that big name TAS reviewer who now has trios. Mike might be moving to trios.
Unless someone was born in the 50s or so, no one today will have first exposure to horns, it will only come at a later stage in the cycle - because horns are not the default like they were back then. So it is obvious that person will have changed before going to horns.
I was pure digital and against converting to analog a few years ago. I was anti video till 2019. Darwin has documented this, how people start as Al and end up as bonzo75
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