You know you're an audio junkie when .................

[BlueFox]

With my Pass amps, I notice that they sound better after about an hour of warm up. Four hours are even better. I usually take them out of stand by mode an hour or two before listening.

Same here. They are in standby all the time, and I will turn them on at 3 PM if I want to listen later that night. Even after 24 hours they sound a bit better, but I decided not to waste electricity by running them non-stop just for an extra percent or so of sound.

 

[treitz3]

I can tell those of you who made the statements you have about warm up time (being no more than an hour) have not EVER owned an Odyssey Stratos. If you had, your thought set would be a complete 180.....and yes, I can say that with complete certainty.

Tom

 

[rockitman]

I can tell those of you who made the statements you have about warm up time (being no more than an hour) have not EVER owned an Odyssey Stratos. If you had, your thought set would be a complete 180.....and yes, I can say that with complete certainty.

Tom

My Pass XS amps take a minimum of 2 hours and sound even better after 4 hours. Such is the life of class A biased SS amps. They consume 1200 watts at idle which is unfortunate...otherwise I would leave them on most of the time.

 

[thedudeabides]

I can tell those of you who made the statements you have about warm up time (being no more than an hour) have not EVER owned an Odyssey Stratos. If you had, your thought set would be a complete 180.....and yes, I can say that with complete certainty.

Tom

So Tom,

I assume you think more is needed with Klauss's amplifier. Yes?

 

[PeterA]

I can tell those of you who made the statements you have about warm up time (being no more than an hour) have not EVER owned an Odyssey Stratos. If you had, your thought set would be a complete 180.....and yes, I can say that with complete certainty.

Tom

Yes, I have not EVER owned an Odyssey Stratos. Does it need a lot of, or very little, warm up before sounding its best?

 

[treitz3]

Hey, Peter. The one I had would take a full 3 days to come back into fruition once turned off or unplugged and allowed to cool. The worst sound came on day two. I loved the amplifier after day three of being on (Klauss recommends to keep them plugged in and on at all times). That's when everything about the sound signature and characteristics just all snapped into place and became a true pleasure to experience. I would still own the Statos instead of my current amplifier if I didn't live in a part of the Carolinas that gets a plethora of lightning during the warm seasons. Unplugging the entire rig and having to wait for it to warm up again became too much of a drag for these ears.

Don't get me wrong. It's not like it wouldn't play music at all or the sound was just so awful during those three days that one couldn't even listen to it. It sounded fine if you were off axis or simply listening to it as background music. My problem was that I preferred to listen in the listening chair, which was the sweet spot. If you listened to the Stratos in the sweet spot during those three days, an almost indescribable array of changes with pretty much all aspects of reproduction would happen whilst listening....until day three. Then bliss. The difference between day two and day three to me was akin to driving a dump truck on day two, followed by driving a Rolls Royce on day three. Huge differences in all aspects of the reproduction.

Hello, thedudeabides. I don't think Klauss needed anything more or even a different design. He already offers 3 or perhaps by now 4 or 5 different board options with all kinds of other upgrades to the capacitors, wiring and what not. If you kept the amplifier on, it sounded fanfreakin'tastic. It's when you let it cool down after unplugging that any issues reared their ugly head. I never did call up Klauss and asked him "why this happens" but I have talked extensively to some audio buddies and the best idea that we could come up with is with that kind of design and the mosfet's (off of memory, perhaps 14 or so?) being connected straight to the side fins, which were rather large, the amplifier would go through some operating temperature changes until everything stabilized. This included the fins that the mosfets were attached too. Once the fins were warmed up by the mosfets (and they would get very warm, not hot but very warm) and they stabilized at a certain temperature, then the mosfets would be at their optimum operating temperature and the sonic signature of the amplifier would reflect that when you listened to it. At least, that's the theory we came up with. Don't hold me to this because we may be incorrect in our assumptions. Klauss does tell you that the design is one that needs to be plugged in and on at all times.

Tom

 

[thedudeabides]

Tom,

I've learned to accept the fact that there are many things that occur in audio that we can hear but not necessarily explain.

Most recent example for me was my audition of the Pass X350.5. Great expectation bias on my part. I never thought I'd not like it but return it I did.

Go figure.

Best.

 

[Barry2013]

Tom,

I've learned to accept the fact that there are many things that occur in audio that we can hear but not necessarily explain.

Most recent example for me was my audition of the Pass X350.5. Great expectation bias on my part. I never thought I'd not like it but return it I did.

Go figure.

Best.

That is the sort of experience I would expect from long term audiophiles who are secure in trusting their ears and unlikely to fall prey to expectation bias.
A couple of years ago I had on home demo some recently introduced and highly reviewed speaker cables. Initially they sounded good but after a couple of days I could hear a clear artificial quality to their sound and I sent them back. I then tried the Entreq cables and the rest is history as they say..
My new Challenger speaker cables which led me to start this thread took about 100 hours to fully burn in and blossom, All the initial shortcomings I reported disappeared and harmony was restored.
A few days later I took delivery of the Stillpoint Ultra 5s which went under my Vitus SIA 025 amp and the four Ultra SSs which they eplaced went under my Magnum Dynalab 109 tuner,
The combination of the improved Stillpointing and the new speaker cables resulted in a sound uncontaminated by any unwanted noise, natural musical reproduction and great communication, The synergy between Stillpoints and Entreq grounding has been commented upon before but IME it extends to their cables as well.
Really recommend trying them if you can

 

[thedudeabides]

Thanks for the comment Barry.

Some obviously disagree with the reliability of trusting one's ears but after some 30 years plus in this hobby, I've learned to put expectation bias on the bottom of the purchase decision matrix.

 

[thedudeabides]

Yes Sir.

I assume you mean the thread entitled "Sean Olive and Blind Testing" that was posted by you yesterday and has received no replies to date.

Pertinent? The lack of replies may suggest something else. Just a guess.

We shall see how pertinent other forum members feel it is.

 

[treitz3]

Tom,

I've learned to accept the fact that there are many things that occur in audio that we can hear but not necessarily explain.

Most recent example for me was my audition of the Pass X350.5. Great expectation bias on my part. I never thought I'd not like it but return it I did.

Funny you mention that.....expectation bias. My buddy had this Cary tube amp that I absolutely drooled over because I heard it hooked up to two different system's at my buddy Jerry's house and at yet another system at an audio event. It had to have been one of the best sounding amps I had ever heard up 'till then. I told Jerry that I would own that very amp one day. He said, "over my dead body". I asked him where he would like to be buried.

​

All kidding aside. After begging him relentlessly and giving him grief for months on end, he finally gave in and let me have the amp to see how it sounded in my system. Whooooo-Hoooo! So, I brought it up from Atlanta and hooked it up to the rig. I don't believe (personally) in expectation bias, only the end result as to what hits these ears but I will admit, I had extremely high hopes for this amplifier. Not only was it drop dead gorgeous, the sound I heard emanating from it was simply musical and the crème de la crème of sonic signatures. I just knew it was gonna sound fantastic with my gear!

Wrong. Man, I must have messed with that amplifier and EVERYTHING in my system for two months. Changed out every upstream and downstream cable and PC, swapped out tubes in my pre and that amp like they were going out of style, messed with the bias running it normal, hot, low.....nothing seemed to work. That was a very good lesson in system synergy for me. After exhausting every option I had, I brought it back down to Jerry's pad and hooked it up to the very system I took it out of. Same tubes, same PC, same bias, same cables. The sound I loved from that amplifier came back like the past two months had never happened. *bangs head up against the wall*

I don't hear very often folks passing on Pass (no pun intended) but what happened to me with my "dream" Cary amp could have happened to you with the Pass. It simply did not work well with your system and said system lost it's synergy.

That is the sort of experience I would expect from long term audiophiles who are secure in trusting their ears and unlikely to fall prey to expectation bias.

These are the gentlemen I prefer to chat with in my own not so local audio group. Unfortunately, they are far and few between and spread from Canada to Florida to California and Washington State. I don't like lateral moves and I don't like fluff just because of a price tag. The only thing I care about is the end result as to what hits these ears.

Perhaps this could explain or be a part of the reason why some folks can hear (or detect) the subtleties of burn in or not. I don't mean to offend anybody with that statement, that is clearly not my intent but it is something that I personally believe to be true just based on my experience within this hobby. I had a few guys who were self claimed "audiophiles" that could not hear any difference between day one, two or day three with the Stratos. To me, that just simply blew my mind.......and I couldn't fathom how they couldn't. Different listening criteria levels, I guess. The well seasoned audiophile buddies from all over? Every one of them heard it and all observed the same thing I did.

Unfortunately, I know of many who fall prey to expectation bias.

Tom

 

[esldude]

I posted this on another thread it is pertinent, if you can listen to the part where Sean Olive discusses the unsighted tests carried out with Harmon's own engineers!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56xPMqZmejU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Keith.

Yeah, man what is wrong with you?

Didn't you read just up on this very page:

"That is the sort of experience I would expect from long term audiophiles who are secure in trusting their ears and unlikely to fall prey to expectation bias."

Audiophiles have bias anti-dote or something. Perhaps they aren't human as humans definitely seem to be prone to many varied sources of bias. Even human engineers tested at Harmon. But audiophiles? Please, no bias possible if they are experienced and trusting of their ears.

 

[BlueFox]

The only 'bias' that exists is in the minds of those who are so weak minded they think everyone else is as weak minded as they are. The entire concept of expectation bias is absurd. It falls into the same absurd category as the 'placebo effect' in regard to audio performance.

 

[esldude]

The only 'bias' that exists is in the minds of those who are so weak minded they think everyone else is as weak minded as they are. The entire concept of expectation bias is absurd. It falls into the same absurd category as the 'placebo effect' in regard to audio performance.

Yeah, I did not even think it worth mentioning placebo effect. Nothing to it in audiophilia, nothing at all. Didn't think to link it with strength of mind though. Guess that would be a good test for that. Do a test and see if sighted listening invokes one to become biased by other cues. If so, then they are weak minded. Have you given any thought of writing up the paper in a psyche journal or something similar?

 

[thedudeabides]

Audiophiles have bias anti-dote or something.

With all due respect, you are making assumptions based on your own personal biases, not mine.

I will gladly admit that I'm someone who absolutely trusts my ears. Has worked for some three decades plus and I'm quite happy with my past and current efforts to further "connect" with the music.

In the end, isn't that what this is all about or am I missing something?

And rest assured I'm quite human, like many others who share my perspective, despite your pre-concieved notions / biases.

Best.

 

[thedudeabides]

Do a test and see if sighted listening invokes one to become biased by other cues. If so, then they are weak minded.

Oh my. Now we, who trust their ears, are "weak minded".

Any other deficiencies we should be aware of Sir?

Any other negative / insulting comments you wish to make?

 

[thedudeabides]

Have you given any thought of writing up the paper in a psyche journal or something similar?

Have you?

 

[esldude]

Oh my. Now we, who trust their ears, are "weak minded".

Any other deficiencies we should be aware of Sir?

Any other negative / insulting comments you wish to make?

No, read more carefully. Bluefox said those who believe in bias are weak minded because they think everyone else is as weak minded as they are. Implying if you are effected by bias or believe it to be a factor you are weak minded. So the obverse would be those uneffected by bias are strong minded people.

 

[bonzo75]

Unfortunately, I know of many who fall prey to expectation bias.

Tom

I think Expectation bias is a personal trait. Some people have an expectation bias for life regardless of experience. I think Keith is that type of person, so he keeps harping on about it, he strikes me as the sort who goes to a fancy restaurant and thinks the food tastes good because it is pricey and the waiter describes the dish with a soft French accent. He probably needs to wear a blindfold everytime he orders and eats.

 

[treitz3]

Purite, I hope you are not gonna be one of those "Roger Russell" warriors that goes around and posts the Sean Olive video wherever you can possibly stick it in a thread. In every thread you can just hoping to invoke a response, whether positive, constructive or not. I wasn't shocked in the slightest at the test results on Sean's video for they are engineers, not well seasoned audiophiles.

As for your last statement, please refrain from using absolutist statements. You have already been formally warned about making statements that create heated arguments, this is your second formal warning. The third time will result in an involuntary holiday for you and repeated offenses will result in a ban. Just as a refresher, here is the TOS link once again >>> http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?1207-Terms-Of-Service Please allow me to specifically reference why you have received a second formal warning;

9. Where possible, please avoid generalizations which create heated arguments. Please don’t say “all amps sound the same” but rather, “all the amps I have heard sound the same to me.” Following this rule not only makes for a calmer atmosphere, but also saves you hours and days of aggravation while you try to defend your point of view!

Tom