Stenheim Reference Ultime two vs Zellaton Reference

[orenatt]

Earlier you asked for some other speaker names/recommendations -- have you considered the Marten Coltrane Quintet or the Tidal Audio Akira loudspeakers? (Somewhat similar price range area as the Zellaton Ultra Reference, maybe a bit less.) It has been a few years since I've heard each, but my recollection is that these produce tremendously beautiful music. Of course, the other variables will matter (as others have stated: room, associated amplification and sources) and might possibly throw shade on what I remember, but are you able to travel a short distance to hear the sound quality that these brands can produce? If I had the coin to spend today these two speakers would be on my short list to find and hear again.

There are so many great manufacturers and I don't want to get too spread out and limit myself to a limited number of options

 

[orenatt]

WBF member Marty has them!

WBF member pk_LA had them!



These are three great dynamic driver loudspeakers.

Have you considered Von Schweikert?

Have you considered Rockport?

Both speakers are great, but they have a rear port and require a long distance from the rear wall to get the best out of them

 

[gleeds]

Those Sigmas look interesting.

Bias aside, the triple-small woofer statement speaker ideal for your room dimensions is the Von Schweikert Ultra 7s. Their bass tunability, supported by the onboard Foundation hybrid bass system, allows them to perform with as little as 12" from the wall. Individual autoformers on the rear panel will enable the tweeter, super-tweeter, and rear ambient ribbon/horn array to be precisely adjusted to room and taste. There are two additional points of value and excellence. Damon Von Schweikert will personally install the speakers anywhere in Europe at no extra cost, and we have a good client in Germany who would welcome you for an audition. Please PM me if you would like to arrange a listen before making a final selection. Naturally, any RAAL color will be meticulously applied.

 

[AudioHR]

We talked about Zellaton and Stenheim but there are a lot of very good brands and options such as Magico, Wilson, Kharma, Raidho, Avalon, MBL, TAD and more.

What do you think about another alternative?

Just have to say that the speakers that you have mentioned are all of the same cloth so to speak. They are all hi end and represent a who's who of audio. Nothing wrong with that if that's what you want and have the appropriate room and system that will allow the speaker to be it's best!

I haven't heard all of these speakers in the best environment or some not even enough to really judge so some may rank higher than others. So you can take my opinion for what it's worth to you, lol. Still I would say there are other types of speakers that are worthy of consideration.

 

[AudioHR]

unfortunately, I can not change my room layout.
I was very close to buying a pair of Stenheim Reference Ultime Two before a few months ago but I take more time to think about it again.

Maybe you need to get a bigger/better room or be content with the speakers that you already have! Not trying to say you can't find something else that sounds better to you or be overly provocative but you have acknowledged that the room is confining your choices.

The speakers you mention and your probable audio goals are not inexpensive. Maybe a home Reno would be a better investment in the long run.

 

[Perfect sense Audio]

You might consider upgrading to the Stenheim Alumine 5SX which includes the substantial aluminium floor platforms, a room control panel and grounding post. All adding to the performance while also giving you the ability to optimize the speakers to your room and preferences.

Bigger is not always better where the Ultime 2 might become too much and the height of the speakers a challenge if the listening area (triangle) is limited.

The shots below are from the Munich show in 2024.

Another option could be the new Rockport Lynx.

/ Marcus

 

[orenatt]

I don’t think that the that new Stenheim 5SX is an upgrade from the SE model.
you can receive a better results from the SE model if you replace the built in foot with track audio isolation foot and Chord Silent Mount SM5 Titanium Floor Protectors.
real upgrade is the bigger model but as you wrote - you need a room in order to receive a better results from the SE model.

 

[Gregm]

Just have to say that the speakers that you have mentioned are all of the same cloth so to speak. They are all hi end and represent a who's who of audio. Nothing wrong with that if that's what you want and have the appropriate room and system that will allow the speaker to be it's best!

I haven't heard all of these speakers in the best environment or some not even enough to really judge so some may rank higher than others. So you can take my opinion for what it's worth to you, lol. Still I would say there are other types of speakers that are worthy of consideration.

I understand your point (I think) - the two speaker manufacturers who have chosen offer very high resolution , subjective impression of speed, and dynamics (for box speakers).
The MBL speakers @orenatt mentions above offer similar characteristics of perceived speed & airiness.
However, why not just stay with what you already know?

 

[Perfect sense Audio]

I don’t think that the that new Stenheim 5SX is an upgrade from the SE model.
you can receive a better results from the SE model if you replace the built in foot with track audio isolation foot and Chord Silent Mount SM5 Titanium Floor Protectors.
real upgrade is the bigger model but as you wrote - you need a room in order to receive a better results from the SE model.

Yes - there are certainly alternative ways of decoupling the standard and SE versions from the floor, but none are as ambitious as the dedicated and optimized platform from Stenheim. The room control panel and grounding possibility adds to the SX model as well which is certainly an upgrade to the SE version overall.

/ Marcus

 

[AudioHR]

I understand your point (I think) - the two speaker manufacturers who have chosen offer very high resolution , subjective impression of speed, and dynamics (for box speakers).
The MBL speakers @orenatt mentions above offer similar characteristics of perceived speed & airiness.
However, why not just stay with what you already know?

Must have been in a feisty mood last night. Yes I think you understand my point to the OP, "why not just stay with what you already know"
Just an alternative viewpoint being offered, most of us do like to change things up in an effort to get even better sound so I understand the quest. My thinking was these high resolution speakers that the OP is looking at are a sideways step for the most part. All are as far as I can see excellent products but may not get one closer to the holy grail.

 

[gleeds]

My experience, especially recently, mirrors some of the thoughts represented here. That is, there are probably a dozen top-level speakers one can choose from in this price class. Tidal, Stenheim, Wilsion, Magico, Rockport, Von Schweilert, Goebel, Zellaton, Marten, Raidho, Borreson, Avantgard, Cessarro, Clarysis, Alsyvox and on and one.

After all the audio speak, I have begun telling our clients this: Of all the speakers you have listened to and all the input you have received from other audiophiles, dealers, and reviewers, it all comes down to this—WHAT SPEAKER MAKES YOUR HEART SING!

Case in point:

I worked with a client for three months while he was looking for his next speaker. He clearly preferred the sound of tubes and vinyl over solid-state and digital. He listened to the Von Schweikert VR.fifty, an 80k speaker, and it was only when I combined it with a Trafomatic 40-watt/channel Class A amplifier that he finally felt ready to commit. A week later, he heard a pair of Goebels and said he liked some things they did better than the VS. Knowing how he was laboring with the decision, I asked the question - which speaker makes your heart sing more? A day later, he called to thank me for helping him decide. He chose the Goebel, and while disappointed, he made the right choice for him.

I'll leave it at that, except to say I believe in the long run:

a) This approach is good for my business as that customer will refer many clients to me for being honest and not pressuring him, and

b) As audiophiles, we often miss the forest through the trees—your sound is your sound and does not need to be anyone else's.

Oranette - no judgment whatsoever on this thread or your quest. I have enjoyed this thread and hearing about gems we may not know, e.g., offers from Sigma Acoustics. Good luck finding your dream speaker.

 

[Rob181]

My experience, especially recently, mirrors some of the thoughts represented here. That is, there are probably a dozen top-level speakers one can choose from in this price class. Tidal, Stenheim, Wilsion, Magico, Rockport, Von Schweilert, Goebel, Zellaton, Marten, Raidho, Borreson, Avantgard, Cessarro, Clarysis, Alsyvox and on and one.

After all the audio speak, I have begun telling our clients this: Of all the speakers you have listened to and all the input you have received from other audiophiles, dealers, and reviewers, it all comes down to this—WHAT SPEAKER MAKES YOUR HEART SING!

Case in point:

I worked with a client for three months while he was looking for his next speaker. He clearly preferred the sound of tubes and vinyl over solid-state and digital. He listened to the Von Schweikert VR.fifty, an 80k speaker, and it was only when I combined it with a Trafomatic 40-watt/channel Class A amplifier that he finally felt ready to commit. A week later, he heard a pair of Goebels and said he liked some things they did better than the VS. Knowing how he was laboring with the decision, I asked the question - which speaker makes your heart sing more? A day later, he called to thank me for helping him decide. He chose the Goebel, and while disappointed, he made the right choice for him.

I'll leave it at that, except to say I believe in the long run:

a) This approach is good for my business as that customer will refer many clients to me for being honest and not pressuring him, and

b) As audiophiles, we often miss the forest through the trees—your sound is your sound and does not need to be anyone else's.

Oranette - no judgment whatsoever on this thread or your quest. I have enjoyed this thread and hearing about gems we may not know, e.g., offers from Sigma Acoustics. Good luck with your quest.

"I'll leave it at that, except to say I believe in the long run...a) This approach is good for my business as that customer will refer many clients to me for being honest and not pressuring him"

Your business principles are - & continue to be - outstanding...

 

[thedudeabides]

Absent an in home audition, one hell of an expensive crap shoot. And why the OP thinks others can provide significant value to his decision making process is beyond me. My 2 cents. He should attend audio shows (Munich comes to mind) as an initial starting point to establish a general understanding of availabe options. And at the same time explore the opportunities to "network" with industry manufacturers and hi end retailers to assist in the selection process. IMO, his attempt of getting reliable input on brand / model sound quality on WBF is likely to do more harm than good. But it's his coin he gambling with so whatever.

 

[bonzo75]

And why the OP thinks others can provide significant value to his decision making process is beyond me.

Many people buy just to get forum attention, so this whole decision making process with forum involvement and then the congrats that follows with the social interaction is worth like 200k

 

[AudioHR]

My experience, especially recently, mirrors some of the thoughts represented here. That is, there are probably a dozen top-level speakers one can choose from in this price class. Tidal, Stenheim, Wilsion, Magico, Rockport, Von Schweilert, Goebel, Zellaton, Marten, Raidho, Borreson, Avantgard, Cessarro, Clarysis, Alsyvox and on and one.

After all the audio speak, I have begun telling our clients this: Of all the speakers you have listened to and all the input you have received from other audiophiles, dealers, and reviewers, it all comes down to this—WHAT SPEAKER MAKES YOUR HEART SING!

Case in point:

I worked with a client for three months while he was looking for his next speaker. He clearly preferred the sound of tubes and vinyl over solid-state and digital. He listened to the Von Schweikert VR.fifty, an 80k speaker, and it was only when I combined it with a Trafomatic 40-watt/channel Class A amplifier that he finally felt ready to commit. A week later, he heard a pair of Goebels and said he liked some things they did better than the VS. Knowing how he was laboring with the decision, I asked the question - which speaker makes your heart sing more? A day later, he called to thank me for helping him decide. He chose the Goebel, and while disappointed, he made the right choice for him.

I'll leave it at that, except to say I believe in the long run:

a) This approach is good for my business as that customer will refer many clients to me for being honest and not pressuring him, and

b) As audiophiles, we often miss the forest through the trees—your sound is your sound and does not need to be anyone else's.

Oranette - no judgment whatsoever on this thread or your quest. I have enjoyed this thread and hearing about gems we may not know, e.g., offers from Sigma Acoustics. Good luck finding your dream speaker.

I like what you are saying here. Very ethical.

 

[orfeo_monteverdi]

[please forgive my poor English]

I browsed through this thread, and noted a few interesting points. I'll quickly give some input, for what it's worth.

Alsyvox ? Terrific panels, but no-GO for you alas: you have only 30cm left behind the speakers.
Stenheim Reference Ultime Two ? Terrific speakers, but I strongly doubt they would fit given your 2,60 ceiling.
Moreover:

1. I am 70% sure you don't have the minimum volume required (large room, but also low ceiling). To be seriously checked (with the help of the manufacturer, if necessary).​

2. back ported anyway => not recommended (you have only 30cm left behind the speakers!)​

Horns? Your listening space is approx. 16m², you wrote. So I would not go horns as you probably listen midfield.
MBL? Great speakers for "ambiance" and casual listening, from anywhere else than the sweet spot. I love them. But I'm sure you wouldn't consider them as an upgrade vs the Stenheim Alumine 5SE. In a 135m² loft, MBL would be great: plenty of space to put them at 1/3 of the room's length and set the dining room behind the speakers. But in a 35m² room, with speakers located 30cm from the rear wall as you mentioned it, forget MBL.
Others? I am sure some very nice but less known speakers exist, and have been mentioned by experienced members. But it will be difficult for you to listen to those speakers, not to speak about having demo'ed at home.

So,
IF you know that the Alumine Five works well in your room (which is an invaluable given in this equation), THEN why not
- stick with that.
- upgrade your room acoustics !!!! Call an expert. I think he will come in your room.
- Optionally, why not upgrade the Alumine 5 SE to Alumine Five SX ? (@Perfect sense Audio made this suggestion too)
- At last, if you have enough space and if you have nothing against tubes electronics, why not try Aries Cerat (AC) electronics?

- no, there are definitely not "rosy view" and sloppy tube gear​

- not all AC gear will fit the Alumine 5. My feeling is that their unique TriodeFET technology can be a good bet regarding the power amplifier (it can drive loads down to 2 Ohms). The model to try also depends on the average SPL you want to reach. Get advice; there is an AC dealer in Israel.​

- if you have attended live un-amplified concerts in very good concert halls, I think a Stenheim & AC match will be strikingly reminiscent of "the real thing"​

- I heard the Stenheim Alumine Two (non-SE version) powered by a full (big) AC system, in a dedicated room with SMT diffusers: one of the very best listening session of my life, as simple as that (on chamber music and voice, as the bass is of course limited with that 2-ways monitor). I attend 30 to 40 concerts/year.​

It also depends on your reference, that we do not know: is it concert halls, live music? Then the reference is that thing called "reality".
Or is it pop & synthetic music? Rock? Audiophile recordings? Jazz? Miscellaneous?

Anyway,

Absent an in home audition, one hell of an expensive crap shoot.

+1²

Good luck.
Keep us posted.

 

[jbrrp1]

Absent an in home audition, one hell of an expensive crap shoot. And why the OP thinks others can provide significant value to his decision making process is beyond me. My 2 cents. He should attend audio shows (Munich comes to mind) as an initial starting point to establish a general understanding of availabe options. And at the same time explore the opportunities to "network" with industry manufacturers and hi end retailers to assist in the selection process. IMO, his attempt of getting reliable input on brand / model sound quality on WBF is likely to do more harm than good. But it's his coin he gambling with so whatever.

If he avails himself of relationships among the WBF participants who already own his candidate speakers, and then pays them a visit to hear them in well-sorted systems, it can be very valuable in his decision-making process. This is something I have done and definitely benefitted from (and plan to do more of, when I can travel more). This approach definitely brings significant value.

 

[infinitely baffled]

If he avails himself of relationships among the WBF participants who already own his candidate speakers, and then pays them a visit to hear them in well-sorted systems, it can be very valuable in his decision-making process. This is something I have done and definitely benefitted from (and plan to do more of, when I can travel more). This approach definitely brings significant value.

Agreed

If i restricted my options to products i can try here in my system, i would be limited to high volume mass market products alone. I wouldn't own any of the kit i do, as the only items i have been able to home demo were cables (and grounding box).
Forums are an essential resource for information about products i cant audition in person.

 

[thedudeabides]

If he avails himself of relationships among the WBF participants who already own his candidate speakers, and then pays them a visit to hear them in well-sorted systems, it can be very valuable in his decision-making process.

True but how often does this happen? My guess. Rarely.

 

[Alrainbow]

Marty's system is extraordinary over all , he is a person who puts track marks on his rugs to achieve perfection
If you want to be totally honest what ever he picks it becomes world class .