I think this is balanced isolation transformer not AC regenerator? am I wrong?
Isolation Transformer and Balanced Power versus PS Audio Regenerator
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
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It depends on the quality of mains, at I live in a small village not so far form the power house, but there is a moderate plant that sold metal parts (known to produce deformation of the sine wave - distorsion PS AUDIO said), and many neighbors use new thermal systems that produce also distorsion.
My TAD M700 is 350w/8ohm and my complete TAD system at high SPL (complex music) does not need more than 1000 watt RMS power.
I had 2kva ups, I had 3kva ups, I had 10kva avr, I had 20kva ups and all of them compressed the music dynamics except 20kva ups.
It means my TAD with less than 1kva power needs 20kva AC Regenerator for full dynamic without compression.
These are real experience not just mathematic numbers.
I’m using the Torus rm 20. I’m thinking about possibly using a P15 (or 20) between my Audio Panel (made by Rex) and the Torus. All components would remain plugged into the Torus (including the 40 watt Aries Cerat amps).
I’ve heard about people using balanced iso transformers after the Power Plants with good results…
(Btw, is it unusual that my Fluke measurements - taken at Panel - don’t show any 5th harmonic?)
i suppose we have to examine whether there is any real difference between an isolation transformer, and a power regenerator?
the nuance of that answer is beyond my pay grade. but on the surface they appear to do the same things in the same way. just a scale difference.
for instance, my Equi=tech 10WQ offer EMF filtering on each circuit. is that a form of regeneration?
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I asked this question because I never seen 10KVA AC Regenerator in this market.
PS Audio P20, Strontank, Purepower, … all are under 3kva.
and at the end of the day limit dynamics and head room in most systems. i have 4000 watts on my bass towers (with efficient Class D amps) and 1000 (darTZeel 468's) watts on my 97db passive towers, along with lots of sources; i do have battery power for my preamp.
yet 10kva allows for at least X2 headroom any time even at full whip. which matters when things go crazy. and the whole system sees the same power profile.
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Try a Heartsound Audio Holostage or her panel device. Stick it on the panel and/or the Torus. I have a set of 4 on order and that is what I intend to do. Its a whole lot of graphene and piezo crystals. I gather its very audible, yet no one knows why. $1000 for 4 so inexpensive.
Also, change the power cord to the Torus. I would also not hesitate to change the first 0ne or two duplex in the RM20 to Furutech or some other favorite. That RM20 can be upgraded. You will void any warranty, but I have found Furutech is notably better than a Hubbell duplex.
and relative to any other approach; a full system isolation transformer even including the installation assuming you are not rewiring all your circuits, is cheap, cheap, CHEAP......relative to any other 'High End' solution where you are paying for the market profile of big system investments and sometimes gussied up chassis and design.
Equi=Tech wall panel systems are commercial products, all business, aimed at Pro Studios and are priced accordingly. they have a very slight hum you can hear if you are within 3-4 feet of them. they do have a thermal fan which rarely kicks on. mine is on the outside wall in the hallway outside my room so never any concerns.
to me the ONLY reason not to go that way is if you are in a condo or apartment or home where there are logistical restrictions. otherwise it's a no brainer.
Equi=Tech wall panel systems are commercial products, all business, aimed at Pro Studios and are priced accordingly. they have a very slight hum you can hear if you are within 3-4 feet of them. they do have a thermal fan which rarely kicks on. mine is on the outside wall in the hallway outside my room so never any concerns.
to me the ONLY reason not to go that way is if you are in a condo or apartment or home where there are logistical restrictions. otherwise it's a no brainer.
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Votronic makes larger sine wave inverters on request. They make for ambulances, so they offer the highest sine wave quality.
www.votronic.de
Rettung & Einsatz | VOTRONIC
www.votronic.de
I have not seen a large regenerator either.
There are a boat loads of batteries and inverters on the market that are 100 amps or more. Lumitless power when you parallel them. 200A to 400A or more.
Most filters are multiple small 400 watt toroid isolation transformers and some caps. The core of a Torus is 70 to 350 lbs depending on ampacity. Feed them correctly and there is no compression.
If you can't fix your power and you have an undersized branch feeding your system, a device like a UPS may be a better option. But it still needs to be sized correctly. Which is the crofx of all filter debates. Are you powering the filter properly. And is the filter sized correctly for the job. And are you using a filter that creates a sound you like. All filters have a voice.
FWIW, whenever I specify a job, I always suggest an isolation transformer. As well as unfiltered circuits to the room. This is a rough draft on how to properly power a high end stereo. Filtered and unfiltered circuits of varying gauge wires to the room. The gutter lets you move wires between the Torus and the audio subpanel. You can listen and tune for optimum performance. Any of the outputs, but most likely the unfiltered can have smaller in room filters attached to them. Or non at all.
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The since discontinued Richard Gray Power Vaults were 11kva units. They are around 1000 pounds and 4’ high - think half of a refrigerator in size - and cost $24k a decade ago when new. It’s a rebadged industrial (hospital use originally) UPS. I use one to bridge between my street feed and my whole home generator. The Power Vault keeps everything stable in between when the power goes out and the external generator kicks in. It feeds a giant Richard Gray transformer, which at some point will get replaced by a Torus unit. GE and Toshiba make similar units.
I think Amir was talking regenerators, not UPS. Richard Gray is a UPS. Or a isolation transformer. Also make a very good SPD.
TORUS AVR transformers have auto voltage taps on the primary to keep the load stable at 120 volts durring a brown out or overvoltage occurrence. Only a UPS does this. Torus will shut down if the voltage falls below 90 volts. So its not going to operate in a power outage.
You can run your house through a powerwall and use that as a UPS. They may or may not switch over fast enough in a power failure to keep a computer running. Your Richard Gray might not switch quick enough either. Most cimpanies advertise 10ms. But do they really switch that fast?
TORUS AVR transformers have auto voltage taps on the primary to keep the load stable at 120 volts durring a brown out or overvoltage occurrence. Only a UPS does this. Torus will shut down if the voltage falls below 90 volts. So its not going to operate in a power outage.
You can run your house through a powerwall and use that as a UPS. They may or may not switch over fast enough in a power failure to keep a computer running. Your Richard Gray might not switch quick enough either. Most cimpanies advertise 10ms. But do they really switch that fast?
Although balanced output mains transformers can be used for specific, not general use in houses, they need special installation and requirements - it is not a simple DIY affair.
IMO balanced power is only advantageous if the distance between the balancing transformer (or mains board) and system is very large or the system is very complex, self generating a lot of noise.
Battery psu in Dartzeel is very good idea. ASR Emitter also use battery in pre section.
Separate bass tower with separate amplification is also very good idea.
I did not have Big Isolation transformers but It seems the best solution with least side effects in this market is big isolation transformers.
I contacted Denkenseiki Japan for ordering 30KVA NCT-G low noise isolation transformers but they did not answer. I am not sure but I feel they are worry about using these isolation transformers in Iran military industry.
Wavac audio use Denkenseiki Isolation transformers.
I asked Accuphase, AHB2, CH, TAD, Vitus, … to produce 30kva AC regenerator but non of them accepted.
I live in a big complex with more than 200 apartments. If I want describe distortion of sound in my room I can say when AC power quality is good the resolution of my system is equal to 18bits but when AC power quality is awful the resolution dropps to under 12bits.
I think audio industry is very very awful. Million dollar prices, mid to low quality CD, SACD records, no AC power solution …
The most important thing of Balanced isolation transformers is zero leakage current for all audio equipments, when we connect different equipments together each equipment has a chassis voltage (the capacitance between transformer and chassis cause induction voltage) and different voltage is not good for noise level and SNR. When we use balanced power all of these voltages are zero and SNR increase.
I had high quality ABB switzerland 20KVa UPS , all of new inverters and UPSs are igbt class d and they shift tonal balance and also decrease sound quality.Votronic makes larger sine wave inverters on request. They make for ambulances, so they offer the highest sine wave quality.
Rettung & Einsatz | VOTRONIC
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