I'm also guilty of going off topic, my enthusiasm ran away with me, I'll keep things on subject.
How do you know when you are done?
- Thread starter Mike Lavigne
- Start date
It is about the journey, and also the destination.
Building and recreating a HiFi sound system that met my ideals and lifestyle and affordability at the time has progressed through many evolutions, a number of complete systems, then tweaked to a fine tuned iteration. Always fun. Each was very satisfying to me, and my listening friends at those moments. Each was frustrating at times and then inevitably nourishing for where my head and heart were at with music listening at that phase. Each evolved the listener and we grew from the experiences.
Now perhaps I find myself, not so much intellectually, but based on habits and satisfaction levels to be in a different place. I buy lots of music (as always), mostly vinyl. But I find far less interest in slogging through shows, moving gear around, or entertaining new levels of major equipment change. Dust has actually collected on things that don’t regularly get handled, like knobs and tonearms. It’s just too much hassle and I’m TOO SATISFIED with my listening. Our local audio club SMAC meets monthly and has for the last twenty years. This really satisfies my need for connection to friends and like minded enthusiasts. The camaraderie is still heartfelt and we help each other out and help with a reality check too from time to time. But mostly, we just share in the adventure and the emotional thrill of a beautiful performance together.
I’ve been retired now for almost two years. This gives me more discretionary time to explore my record collection and simply enjoy longer listening sessions, sitting alone (with my cat), or with friends. I’m finding a lot of old friends in there, and new surprises from time to time. There are a lot of records! One of the greatest jokes of life is that someone will put on a record and I’ll say, “wow, that was a great choice that they brought”… and then they respond with, “listen my friend, I pulled that off your shelf! Ha, ha, ha.
To me, this hobby/lifestyle has been so rewarding in so many ways. In all its different facets. I love gear, I can’t satisfy my interests in design and engineering and after being an industrial designer for 45 years, I know that “interest” is part of my DNA. Yet that doesn’t mean that I need to keep changing or acquiring gear. But these are very separate things in my mind. I’m there! My system, it’s reliable performance, is utterly satisfying, thrilling, and nourishing most always. It serves the master, his dreams, his whims, and his desires.
Happy Listener
Building and recreating a HiFi sound system that met my ideals and lifestyle and affordability at the time has progressed through many evolutions, a number of complete systems, then tweaked to a fine tuned iteration. Always fun. Each was very satisfying to me, and my listening friends at those moments. Each was frustrating at times and then inevitably nourishing for where my head and heart were at with music listening at that phase. Each evolved the listener and we grew from the experiences.
Now perhaps I find myself, not so much intellectually, but based on habits and satisfaction levels to be in a different place. I buy lots of music (as always), mostly vinyl. But I find far less interest in slogging through shows, moving gear around, or entertaining new levels of major equipment change. Dust has actually collected on things that don’t regularly get handled, like knobs and tonearms. It’s just too much hassle and I’m TOO SATISFIED with my listening. Our local audio club SMAC meets monthly and has for the last twenty years. This really satisfies my need for connection to friends and like minded enthusiasts. The camaraderie is still heartfelt and we help each other out and help with a reality check too from time to time. But mostly, we just share in the adventure and the emotional thrill of a beautiful performance together.
I’ve been retired now for almost two years. This gives me more discretionary time to explore my record collection and simply enjoy longer listening sessions, sitting alone (with my cat), or with friends. I’m finding a lot of old friends in there, and new surprises from time to time. There are a lot of records! One of the greatest jokes of life is that someone will put on a record and I’ll say, “wow, that was a great choice that they brought”… and then they respond with, “listen my friend, I pulled that off your shelf! Ha, ha, ha.
To me, this hobby/lifestyle has been so rewarding in so many ways. In all its different facets. I love gear, I can’t satisfy my interests in design and engineering and after being an industrial designer for 45 years, I know that “interest” is part of my DNA. Yet that doesn’t mean that I need to keep changing or acquiring gear. But these are very separate things in my mind. I’m there! My system, it’s reliable performance, is utterly satisfying, thrilling, and nourishing most always. It serves the master, his dreams, his whims, and his desires.
Happy Listener
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I'm done now, as I have reached the pinnacle of what is possible and the end of my budget!
Mike - if I may suggest: the built-in phono stages in the DarTZeel 18NS are nice but are leaving a lot in the grooves... I would put a world-class photo stage (e.g., CH or Nagra HD) on your list!
Mike - if I may suggest: the built-in phono stages in the DarTZeel 18NS are nice but are leaving a lot in the grooves... I would put a world-class photo stage (e.g., CH or Nagra HD) on your list!
How I know when I'm done?
In my personal opinion, it is all about how you approach this hifi/music hobby (pure music-listener vs. hifi-perfectionist)!As many of us here are very, very privileged to own great gear to listen in the best way, I'm also someone looking for "new stuff". Yes, I love to listen to music, but also listening to my gear - that's reality!
WBF is a perfect example: if an average hifi-gear-chaser or music-believer going to those threads. EVERYONE thinks he must be a millionaire, before being able to listen ^seriously-as-an-audiophile
Makes a €10k versus €50k DAC so much different? NO, sorry had tested too much! Of course certain songs will be slightly "different" and for someone better, for others "I don't hear any difference". I think we are way to biased and it is not enough told, for reasons we all know! Did I have day & night changes with my €40k Pre-Amp and €25k monos (for some entry-level, for some complete insane)? NO, but overall much longer now listening as it is more engaging. Do I've a perfect-treated-room? NO, but still satisfied, because listening do music in my day-life (home office, coffee brewing, listening...)! Also US-Audiophiles are way different from let's say German, Italian, Chinese or Japanese Audiophiles (e.g. sound signature, music genres, apartment-/house building)!I've learned not to be so extreme (yes, took some years...) and everyone must adopt to his room and budget! That's what I've done and therefore need two complete different setups: tube-only with highly efficient full range vs. transistor with good pre/monos and decent 4-way passive speaker.
As many of you as well, I've listened to very budget hifi chains, up to very expensive one. Every hifi-enthusiast need to learn to understand the basics of certain chain-signatures and it will may finding the right chain in a couple years much easier! So many of us get fooled with "as higher the price, as much better it get's" - this is for me SIMPLE WRONG & misguidance!
I'm so far happy with my listening setups and love to switch between my complete different rooms. Will I stop now? Sure, not - it is like stop chasing for new music!
My 2cent as an average HIFI-enthusiast, music-lover & helping people (non-commercial/community-driven) to start with this hobby in a more relaxing/affordable way!
Gerald
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sorry i missed this earlier. for my three stereo cartridges i've used my EMIA Phono Corrector with EMIA MC Trio now for 4 years now in addition to the darTZeel phono for my mono. the dart phono's are very fine.......but there is another higher level too i agree. when i had the NVS tt and more arms i did use the 2nd phono in the dart pre for that 5th stereo cart. and it was very good.
I consider myself pretty close to done, conceptually anyway. I just have to figure out how I want to configure the current pieces. I have to figure out some cable arrangements. Oh, and play with some DIY high pass filters.
If I sell the VTLs I definitely would try a solid-state amp on the woofer ribbons, WestminsterLab Reis or Aesthetix Atlas. Oh, and maybe some custom triple Y adapters.
And I'm looking forward to incorporating the Incito S. That really is a very nice-sounding piece. And Stavros has been making it for quite some years, so it should be reliable. Oh and maybe some tube swapping on the pre-amp.
For OCD audiophiles it might seem like I'm closer to the beginning of the journey rather than at the end. My last couple of configurations at home had me well on the paper, the 7 or 8 ring.* So I think I'm pretty close to where I'm going to end up.
I'm looking forward to enjoying solving the final pieces of the puzzle.
You guys are going to be surprised – – when I'm done, I'm going to be pretty much done. I'm not spending any more money on the hobby.
*It is kind of funny to me that different friends have preferred different configurations over the last few months. One friend keeps referring to his favorite configuration from a few months ago. Two other friends preferred a different configuration.
But as I've always said, I have only one customer.
If I sell the VTLs I definitely would try a solid-state amp on the woofer ribbons, WestminsterLab Reis or Aesthetix Atlas. Oh, and maybe some custom triple Y adapters.
And I'm looking forward to incorporating the Incito S. That really is a very nice-sounding piece. And Stavros has been making it for quite some years, so it should be reliable. Oh and maybe some tube swapping on the pre-amp.
For OCD audiophiles it might seem like I'm closer to the beginning of the journey rather than at the end. My last couple of configurations at home had me well on the paper, the 7 or 8 ring.* So I think I'm pretty close to where I'm going to end up.
I'm looking forward to enjoying solving the final pieces of the puzzle.
You guys are going to be surprised – – when I'm done, I'm going to be pretty much done. I'm not spending any more money on the hobby.
*It is kind of funny to me that different friends have preferred different configurations over the last few months. One friend keeps referring to his favorite configuration from a few months ago. Two other friends preferred a different configuration.
But as I've always said, I have only one customer.
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How large is your room and how is treated acoustically? The size and quality of the room are essential for "reaching the pinnacle of what is possible" -- and even then you cannot be sure that you have actually attained it.
I am done with my main system, ive said that several times in the last 18 months or so but only because I kept moving up the burmester amplifier chain, started with 911, than a 216, than pair of 216s, than a 218, than a pair of 218s and now I have a pair of 909s, the 909 is a different animal
When people have upgraded their budget to their limit they think they have hit the pinnacle. Which in their eyes (ears) is true.
i think when we say 'the pinnacle of what's possible' it is relative to our particular facility/home/room and vision. it's the canvas we have to write on.
sure, i agree that objectively one can be called to task for the theoretical larger more exotic room possibility opening up larger 'what's possible' things. but we operate in the space we have and if we have pushed that envelope to the edge of our vision then i think we can feel we have 'reached the pinnacle of what's possible'.
which for every one is a different place. it would be boring/sad if we all shared the same idea of what the pinnacle was. happy/satisfied/contented is personal. of course, our perspective is fair game too......up to a point. we are constantly called out about this part.
edit---i see Kedar has posted the same thought right above.
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I don’t think this is true. I’ve seen many audiophiles go into debt, and some have even lost their spouses, because their obsession to continue the quest.
The quest can be stopped either by having reached the point where music reproduction is completely satisfying (no point to continue), or by having reached a breaking point in either budget or familial relationships.
What you describe is the sour grapes theory. It may be true for some, but it’s not universally applicable.
That isn't the question. The point is, do they ever at their spend point thinking they are far behind what their spend point can achieve? If not, when they think they have reached the end of their spend point, do they say their system is far behind what is possible?
I think some do, but they are the rational, fiscally responsible, shallow pocket aficionados who have learned to be satisfied.
In decision theory there is a difference between satisficing and optimizing. And, of course there can be many different objective functions and constraint sets … so there may be mathematical answers to any well formulated problem. But in practice human behavior often defies logic.
So across your two posts you have covered:
1. Those who go into debt, and some have even lost their spouses, because their obsession to continue the quest.
2. Those who are the rational, fiscally responsible, shallow pocket aficionados who have learned to be satisfied.
3. Those who often defy logic
Any other types? Please exclude me.
30 years ago, when I was 20 years past my PhD, I took a business school graduate course entitled Organizational Behavior. My goal was to hone my skills so that I would be more effective at “herding cats.” I had recently been tapped into academic administration. Getting tenured faculty members to play nicely together is similar to herding cats, and I think forums often offer similar challenges.
My point isn’t that I could (or would) name all the types who are attracted to this hobby. My point is that the sour grapes theory, which you proposed, may be true sometimes, but that is is not universally applicable.
This is all I can afford, but it’s the pinnacle of… that is a sour grapes theory.
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