I see this practice a lot, and then I see amps placed on some sort of low-rise platform. I would think the latter is the preferred method, so I'm a little confused as to why I see both. Is it purely preference?
What's the deal with placing amps directly on the floor?
- Thread starter Johnny Vinyl
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steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
the issue is what level of de-coupling is used, not what it sits on. amps typically don't like to have floor resonance added to their signal. and if you have a highly resoving system what your amps sit on will affect performance. and so you have to start with what sort of floor do you have? is it suspended wood (a trampoline)? is the suspended wood floor braced underneath the amps? is it concrete? or wood glued directly to concrete? your rack and footers need to deal with the floor and whatever level of decoupling your amp prefers. one size does not fit all.
so setting amps directly on the floor is not a problem in and of itself....as long as the floor-amp interface gets the job done. i can set my dart stereo amp on the floor on the Wave Kinetics A10-U8 footers and it sounds the same as on my Box Furniture amp stand with those same footers. i like the additional height of the amp stand so i use it. of course, my floor is wood glued to concrete. so it is a stable platform.
i think optimizing your amps as far as floor-amp interface is really important and requires some open minded experimentation to find what works best.
some amps are even designed to sit on the floor and include their own decoupling suspension. 2 years ago i had the big dart mono blocks (190 pounds each) for a month. over the first 6 hours of listening i wondered why i was getting a big bloat in the bass around 120hz. i read the manual on the mono blocks and saw i forgot to remove some shipping screws. these screws held the amp case still during shipping. removing them allowed the built in suspension to work, the hump went away and everything got much more delicate and resolving. darTZeel figured having an amp stand and footers for a 200 pound amp would be a problem so they designed in the method for optimization.
i don't know if you still use this approach, but my guess is 3 or 4 cones underneath the butcher block to ground the butcher block with the sub floor would improve transient snap and image focus. and it's a cheap fix. then i'd 'try' some sort of decoupling footer between the butcher block and the amps. the result of the footers would vary from amp to amp and depend on your floor type. but until you tried those things you would not know whether you have optimized the amps. and this approach is much cheaper than some of these expensive amp stands or decoupling stands which can run into the many thousands of dollars and do the same things.
the butcher block sitting on carpet will amplify resonance since it essentially floats. it may float less than the amp sitting on it's own feet but it will none the less float.
the mass of the butcher block will use the spikes to ground itself to the subfloor.
I was thinking the same, but didn't add that in the OP as I don't know enough about high-end audio amps. And thank you very much for your input Mike!
I do think Mike's situation unique but his suggestions sound
That said, I've heard equipment where the abmanufacturer does their homework and isolates the circuit board yet the sound is still improved with some sort of, and there's a ton of them on the market, isolation device. And Steve's suggestion is pretty cost effective solution coupled with Mike's about adding spikes or cones to the Maple boards. A lot of people also like using a Maple (or often some other exotic wood) shelf under their analog or digital front end.
That said, I've heard equipment where the abmanufacturer does their homework and isolates the circuit board yet the sound is still improved with some sort of, and there's a ton of them on the market, isolation device. And Steve's suggestion is pretty cost effective solution coupled with Mike's about adding spikes or cones to the Maple boards. A lot of people also like using a Maple (or often some other exotic wood) shelf under their analog or digital front end.
Not sure why decoupling would matter for a SS amp but have not really thought about it. However, I prefer my amps off the floor mainly to reduce the chance of dust bunnies etc. getting into the cooling system. I would never set an amp (or any electronics) directly on carpet due to dirt, dust and fibers.
p.s. High-resolution flight electronics are way more resolving than audio systems and include a high degree pf specialized mechanical isolation, SS or not...
p.p.s. How did this thread end up under "Turntables"?
p.s. High-resolution flight electronics are way more resolving than audio systems and include a high degree pf specialized mechanical isolation, SS or not...
p.p.s. How did this thread end up under "Turntables"?
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I actually use Aurios Pro MIB on the butcher block and under the components.I never put feet under the butcher block and they work just fine Mike.
Now personally I would never put decouplers under my speaker spikes.
As usual there is no clear answer.
First there are many types of floors with very different mechanical properties and resonances. And amplifiers react very differently to isolation platforms.
Recently Martin Colloms reported that the Audio Research REF 150 tube amplifier sounded much better directly on the floor than on a Finite Elemente platform. For practical reasons I used to keep heavy amplifiers on strong rubber wheeled platforms - but soon found that some of them did not sound their best on my chariots!
First there are many types of floors with very different mechanical properties and resonances. And amplifiers react very differently to isolation platforms.
Recently Martin Colloms reported that the Audio Research REF 150 tube amplifier sounded much better directly on the floor than on a Finite Elemente platform. For practical reasons I used to keep heavy amplifiers on strong rubber wheeled platforms - but soon found that some of them did not sound their best on my chariots!
I thought this as well until I placed a pair of 2" bamboo butcher blocks under the MBLs, I have them spiked through the carpet on 4 corners. The MBLs then are placed on cones and/or Stillpoint ultimates atop the butcher block (bamboo more detail...maple more warmth). When I went to this sub base system, the sound stage exploded and the inner detail became more dense as if I turned up the "detail" saturation knob. The base tightened and the lowest octave became more clear and concise. I like my amps on the floor between the speakers. I also like an empty space between the speakers (no racks please) for the soundstage to develop.
I was never a FE fan; what about say HRS, Symposium, Stillpoint or SRA bases? Each is matched to the individual component rather than a one size fits all approach.
I wasn't aware that Symposium is component specific. It has always been my understanding that for the others it was because of the relationship of the weight as well as the weight distribution with the damping bungs used as there is a range in compression where they work best.
Although technically not as matched as the other three, the Quantum shelves do deal with this issue somewhat.
Aurios are decouplers, and darn good ones too. and understand i'm not saying anything you are doing is wrong, or it does not sound good. what i'm saying is that anything not a spike sitting on carpet is floating and picking up resonance. and you likely have some spikes laying around somewhere (we all have those drawers full of tweaks) you can put underneath those butcher blocks and then listen to see if there is a positive change. there might not be, but then again it might sound better. what have you got to lose?
i felt the same way. how could my 600 pound speakers (or your 800+ pound speakers) improve with decoupling? it's not logical!
Gary Koh, and my friend Tech came over and they convinced me to try the Kombak-Harmonix footers under the MM3's. these were Tech's and he was on the way to Singapore with these and i was just going to try them. i would not let him take them with him. after hearing what they did my eyes were openned.
it turns out that your speaker cabinet (all speaker cabinets) are energized both by the drivers, and the resonance in the floor. so every time the driver moves, the cabinet is also moving and the precison is smeared by all that energy. until you hear it reduced by the footer you will never appreciate what can be done.
the higher resolution your system is, the more the benefit since you have electronics and speaker that tell the whole story.
so i understand someone not being open to them. i was not either. my ears had to hear it.
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