The best and worst at rmaf 2012

[Kevin Doyle]

I found it was not that easy to point to a a truly "best sound of the show" this year. To be honest, there were few memorable "best sounds", whereas there were far more "worst sounds". However, unquestionably, one of the most extraordinary demos was the Sanders electrostatic speaker system. I'll tell you this, it may be a "one seat" system, but it has to be the hands down hi-end bargain of the century. 13K buys it all- and that includes speakers, crossover, the incredibly well-reviewed Magtech 500w amp (REG in TAS loves this thing), preamp and cables. It may even include a bow for all I know. As far as speaker cables, I swear Roger must have gone to Radio Shack and asked for something inexpensive to use. When they showed him 18-2 lamp cord, he must have said, "got anything thinner?". I'm telling you, if I didn't hear it I would never have believed it. He played some powerful drum material that knocked me on my ass, in addition to the usual sonic bon bons we typically hear at shows. Extraordinary resolution, transparency, and most importantly, musicality. All at price that can't be touched by anything else, anywhere at anytime. A total and complete mindfk.

I'm very happy to see increasingly positive buzz about Sanders Sound Systems. I did not attend RMAF this year but was floored when I heard it in 2010. So much so that I visited his room every day at Newport this year and even attended the after hours listening sessions, where they did have a CD player to "take requests." The whole system, if you get the preamp with built in phonostage and another Magtech, is $22k. Also, Roger makes his own cables sourced from Belden. When I have a dedicated room that can accommodate it, and the money to spend on audio gear, Roger's system will be my first thought.

Taking into account the price for performance offered, it'd be easy to justify getting a second pair of speakers with a wider sweet spot for when I have guests, and enjoy the Sanders 10C for solo listening.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Mike, I know you will want to kill me for saying this, but when I first went into the FM/Venture room, I stood up to leave after 30 seconds. That's when they switched from LP to computer source and voila, it was a total different ball game. I think, as you've said before, what we have here is yet another unfortunate example of a table set-up that did not live up to its potential. Among the pieces I heard, the Weavers at Carnegie Hall knocked me out with the same clarity and soundstage I get on my LP rig at home. I told them they should pack up their turntable and stick to CD and computer sources for the rest of the show. I think that's why there was a hit man following me around from room to room after that.......

Funny I didn't see a turntable in the FM Acoustics room when I went

 

[MylesBAstor]

I wasn't at the show ... I find it curious that much is said about FMA and not much about the Venture speakers ... I would think that speakers account for most of the perceived performance ... but that just me.

I find Marty comments about digital interesting ...

Steve about your comment on good sounding sub $2K DAC.. Any brand that caught your attention?

Funny thing about the Venture speakers. Three or four years ago, was quite taken with their performance at CES. Then the last couple of years at CES, the sound was awful.

 

[LL21]

I saw the photo of the Atmasphere room. They were using Stahl-Tek digital...did anyone have any thoughts about how it compared to the vinyl playback in the room (which i believe was Tri Planar)?

 

[flez007]

for those of us that didnt attend, indulge us. rather than mention the bad how about the good:

-best system in the low to mid five-figure price category
-best component or brand you never heard before
-best system in the no holds barred category
-best demo music

Rob - here is my take for your question, take into consideration that I did not heard it all, and I am the guy who likes Accuphase as Digital front-end, so I am biased to the "soft", "yang" or "musical WTM.

1.- I liked the Harbeth and DeVore Fidelity rooms, very musical and showing right tonality all over the place.
2.- Lansche and Venture speakers, no doubt.
3.- Ypsilon/Bergmann/Lansche and the new Avalon Compas speaker (at the Avalon factory tour)
4.- MA recordings, I bought 20 titles! particularly Rediscovered Memories M008A

 

[flez007]

I saw the photo of the Atmasphere room. They were using Stahl-Tek digital...did anyone have any thoughts about how it compared to the vinyl playback in the room (which i believe was Tri Planar)?

Lloyd - I went and listened to all the DACs you asked me to visit, I really liked the Zanden and the Ypsilon, you can´t go wrong!

 

[A.wayne]

Im still waiting on MEP's , FMA report .....

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I saw in the Atmasphere room, they were using Stahl-Tek digital...did anyone have any thoughts about how it compared to the vinyl playback in the room?

i did listen to the Stahl-Tek, but not to the vinyl in that room. i listened to a 44/16 cut that i chose, and then listened to it in SACD when i got home. i prefer SACD and dsd downloads to Redbook thru the Stahl-Tek on that particular cut. i did think the Stahl-Tek seemed a bit 'warmed up' and 'smoothed out'....mimicking analog in some ways. i can see that in some systems that could be the ticket.

at home i'm listening thru the 'loaner' Von Schweikert Unifield 3's.....so my system is not at it's best.

the next day after listening to the Stahl-Tek, Albert Porter told me that somehow the tubes in the Atmasphere MA-60's were not correct, that they were changed to the correct ones, and that i should listen again. this was when i was on my way out to travel to the airport and come home. hard to imagine things could have been too wrong with Ralph Karsten standing there the day before during my demo.

so who knows?

i suppose it depends on what one thinks vinyl should sound like as to how you would view the Stahl-Tek.

btw, this was the $70k, big daddy Stahl-Tek.

and i'm not saying i don't like it at all. i just prefer SACD and dsd to what i heard on that day in that system.

 

[LL21]

Lloyd - I went and listened to all the DACs you asked me to visit, I really liked the Zanden and the Ypsilon, you can´t go wrong!

Flez!!! Thank you!!! I really appreciate that!

 

[LL21]

i did listen to the Stahl-Tek, but not to the vinyl in that room. i listened to a 44/16 cut that i chose, and then listened to it in SACD when i got home. i prefer SACD and dsd downloads to Redbook thru the Stahl-Tek on that particular cut. i did think the Stahl-Tek seemed a bit 'warmed up' and 'smoothed out'....mimicking analog in some ways. i can see that in some systems that could be the ticket.

at home i'm listening thru the 'loaner' Von Schweikert Unifield 3's.....so my system is not at it's best.

the next day Albert Porter told me that somehow the tubes in the Atmasphere MA-60's were not correct, that they were changed to the correct ones, and that i should listen again. this was when i was on my way out to travel to the airport and come home. so who knows?

Mike, Thank you for that...i know you know vinyl better than most too. Yes, i think you are right...they are definitely very, very focused on 'analogue sound' from digital...its all over their materials and how they position themselves. In fact, they seem to use the word analogue more than 'natural'.

 

[mep]

Im still waiting on MEP's , FMA report .....

You must have missed my comments because I have already discussed my thoughts. The bottom line is that I wasn’t blown away with the sound they were achieving in their room like some other people were.

 

[mep]

I wasn't at the show ... I find it curious that much is said about FMA and not much about the Venture speakers ... I would think that speakers account for most of the perceived performance ... but that just me.

I find Marty comments about digital interesting ...

Steve about your comment on good sounding sub $2K DAC.. Any brand that caught your attention?

If you are talking sub $2K, is there anything out there that can touch the Mytek Stereo 192? In this day and age where some DACs still can't pass a 24/192 file over USB, along comes the Mytek and it will decode up to DSDx2. DSD is another whole level of digital sound quality even compared to 24/192 IMO. I own it and love it.

 

[flez007]

If you are talking sub $2K, is there anything out there that can touch the Mytek Stereo 192? In this day and age where some DACs still can't pass a 24/192 file over USB, along comes the Mytek and it will decode up to DSDx2. DSD is another whole level of digital sound quality even compared to 24/192 IMO. I own it and love it.

I bought the demo unit at RMAF I will have a long listening tonight! Thanks to mep, Bruce and many others who recommended me the unit at that price range.

 

[microstrip]

Thanks mep. I haven't tried the KT-120 tubes in my Siegfrieds yet because Luke hasn't officially given them his approval as a plug and play substitute. I'd certainly welcome the thoughts of anyone who has done so in VTL equipment.

Marty,

I would not try them in the Siegfrieds without VTL official approval. The KT120s tubes are not replacement compatible with the 6550 - some ARC amplifiers needed modifications to accept them. VTLs are operated at higher anode voltage and lower currents than most other amplifiers using the 6550 type tube. I am not aware of how the auto-bias system of the Siegfried works, but some amplifiers can have problems at start-up when using the KT120.

 

[A.wayne]

Mike brings up some interesting points. First of all, I think it is a small miracle that anyone gets good sound at these shows-specially those who are in the normal size hotel rooms and not suites. If you hear a system sound damn good in a hotel room, you can bet your neighbor’s paycheck that the same system setup in your listening room (assuming you have a listening room that is better than a hotel room) will sound 10x better.

The FMA system was being shown in a “ballroom” and was therefore a huge room to load into. I didn’t care for the looks of the speakers being used-not that it’s supposed to matter, but of course it does. Like Mike, I was underwhelmed with the sound. It sounded really good, but for those that think the FMA room blew away the MBL room, I strongly disagree. But it’s all about opinions in this hobby right?

Mike said it sounded good ....unofficially the FMA room has received the WBF Award ...

 

[Steve Williams]

Steve about your comment on good sounding sub $2K DAC.. Any brand that caught your attention?

Benchmark DAC2

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Mike said it sounded good ....unofficially the FMA room has received the WBF Award ...

to be clear, FMA sounded to me like it did the previous 10-12 times i heard it. and i've heard it at the showroom system of the dealer in Colorado Springs. i liked it, but did not love it. no magical moments.

if anyone thinks it's their dream gear who am i to argue. but i have not heard it that way so far.

and to MEP's point; maybe if the FMA gear were to show in a smaller room with a speaker that speaks to me, my perception could be different. hard to assign cause and effect to any one item in a room full of unfamiliar gear in a show. if i know almost all the gear in a room, then one variable can be somewhat accurately assessed.

 

[A.wayne]

I wasn't at the show ... I find it curious that much is said about FMA and not much about the Venture speakers ... I would think that speakers account for most of the perceived performance ... but that just me.

I find Marty comments about digital interesting ...

Steve about your comment on good sounding sub $2K DAC.. Any brand that caught your attention?

So if the sound was bad , Speaker or FMA ..... ?

 

[mep]

So if the sound was bad , Speaker or FMA ..... ?

I don't think anyone said the sound was bad including me. I said it sounded very good. So did the complete MC system that sold for $8900.

 

[asiufy]

I saw the photo of the Atmasphere room. They were using Stahl-Tek digital...did anyone have any thoughts about how it compared to the vinyl playback in the room (which i believe was Tri Planar)?

I tried to listen to the Stahl-Tek in this room, but they were using those corner-loaded horn speakers, and frankly, those hurt my ears.
Couldn't stand in the room for more than 30 seconds.


alexandre