RMAF 2013: Gear worth making the trip to Denver to hear... And not!

[caesar]

Thanks.

These speakers contain the NOLA signature, so if you don't like his open baffle design I doubt you will be parting with the kind of $ to get what he has to offer.

They are replacing my Baby Grand Reference Series II and are Carl's latest Concert Grand Golds. Right now, I am just finding the right location, and feel I am close, burning them in and now have about 40 hours on them and can tell you the difference between install and 40 hours is pretty startling. If you have never owned a Nola, IMO, they are VERY special. I have owned many different speakers in my life, including Avalons, ProAc, Celestion, Wilsons (Watt/Puppy/Whow and then X1), Magicos (Q1s) and a host of others. Of course in the end it is one's preference, but my preference is a speaker like the NOLA. It is simple to setup, sounds great just about anywhere you place them and have a huge sweet spot and are incredibly accurate and engaging.

I was very skeptical about the ability of the "lowly" REF75 Carl recommends with the Concert Grands (and he has taken some **** for having the "audacity for showing his flagship with such a measly amp) being able to drive these as I have been using the REF250s on the Baby Grands and found the 250s better on the Baby Grands. Well he is right and I will be replacing my REF250s with the REF75. I use a REF10 on my front end. For those, as I read earlier in this thread, that think "real bass" can't be produced from "a 160 watt tube amp" I recommend them listen to the Concerts with the measly REF75. The bass is pretty incredible and very accurate.

I will end by saying those lucky enough to be able to afford a speaker of this nature, there are a handful of speakers to choose from at this price and most who do so, are committing pretty much to a speaker that they will most likely never replace (unless you have the kind of bucks that is foreign to me) and this was my choice. I cast no aspersions on Wilson, Magico, Rockport, etc. To each his own, but I really like the NOLA approach and the ease of setup and the non-fatiguing listening experience. NOLAs are speakers you can listen to for hours and never fell stressed and feel totally engaged.

Congrats!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Priaptor]

Congrats!!!!!!!!!!!

Again, thanks. I am really excited.

Will keep everyone posted as things develop and the system is optimized.

Incidentally, I have seen some talking about "isolation bases" in different posts here and would recommend people looking into a "cheap" alternative. Townshend (http://www.townshendaudio.com/hi-fi-home-cinema-equipment-vibration-isolation/ ). Hard to beat for the money and they are constructed based on true scientfic data for decoupling, such as what one may find for 4x-10x the bucks at (http://www.minusk.com/content/produ...-isolation-platforms-benchtops-isolators.html) which was my first consideration until Barry Diamante from Soundkeepers turned me on to these incredible isolators. I have two of their isolation bases, have a rack coming and will put their bases against any isolation base at any price, save those super high end and finicky scientific isolators I reference (as well as a host of others). It is also nice to see them now selling feet and corners, which will no doubt bring huge improvements to many systems.

 

[Bill Hart]

Again, thanks. I am really excited.

Will keep everyone posted as things develop and the system is optimized.

Incidentally, I have seen some talking about "isolation bases" in different posts here and would recommend people looking into a "cheap" alternative. Townshend (http://www.townshendaudio.com/hi-fi-home-cinema-equipment-vibration-isolation/ ). Hard to beat for the money and they are constructed based on true scientfic data for decoupling, such as what one may find for 4x-10x the bucks at (http://www.minusk.com/content/produ...-isolation-platforms-benchtops-isolators.html) which was my first consideration until Barry Diamante from Soundkeepers turned me on to these incredible isolators. I have two of their isolation bases, have a rack coming and will put their bases against any isolation base at any price, save those super high end and finicky scientific isolators I reference (as well as a host of others). It is also nice to see them now selling feet and corners, which will no doubt bring huge improvements to many systems.

Didn't the early Townshend Seismic Sink use an inflatable air bladder, or am i 'misremembering'?

 

[Priaptor]

Didn't the early Townshend Seismic Sink use an inflatable air bladder, or am i 'misremembering'?

No more. They use a unique spring system based on the similar much more expensive scientific isolators, albeit without all the fancy fine adjustments. Yes they have been and continue to be tagged with their old inflatable air bladder technology, their new technology, is simple and it really works and unlike many others that claim "decoupling" truly decouples and isolates. Pretty good stuff and amazingly affordable. Sometimes the best things are cheap, this coming from a person who just bought Concert Grands

 

[rbbert]

Again, thanks. I am really excited.

Will keep everyone posted as things develop and the system is optimized.

Incidentally, I have seen some talking about "isolation bases" in different posts here and would recommend people looking into a "cheap" alternative. Townshend (http://www.townshendaudio.com/hi-fi-home-cinema-equipment-vibration-isolation/ ). Hard to beat for the money and they are constructed based on true scientfic data for decoupling, such as what one may find for 4x-10x the bucks at (http://www.minusk.com/content/produ...-isolation-platforms-benchtops-isolators.html) which was my first consideration until Barry Diamante from Soundkeepers turned me on to these incredible isolators. I have two of their isolation bases, have a rack coming and will put their bases against any isolation base at any price, save those super high end and finicky scientific isolators I reference (as well as a host of others). It is also nice to see them now selling feet and corners, which will no doubt bring huge improvements to many systems.

Of course with your NOLAs you don't need these for your speakers! Congratulations! I'd have a pair of the new Baby Grands if I could justify the expense; the Concert Grands are a little too big for my room.

 

[Priaptor]

Of course with your NOLAs you don't need these for your speakers! Congratulations! I'd have a pair of the new Baby Grands if I could justify the expense; the Concert Grands are a little too big for my room.

No I need them for everything else. This is a rack and base tha really works and is cheap.

Actually a medium sized room will work for either. My room is large BUT I still like a relative "near-field" experience which Carl's speakers do better than most

 

[Elliot G.]

Elliot,

I don't think you and I are not that far apart. I don't think anyone here believes that a show will bring out the full potential gear, except in a very few exceptional situations. But my point is more fundamental than that. It is about personal preferences.

Take a speaker that has been voiced to highlight the upper midrange and lower treble yet lacks soundstaging and bass response of what you are used to. You can set it up all you want, add all kinds of subwoofers, and expensive/ exotic tweaks, but it's not going to mask the problem you personally have with the presentation and the music unfortunately will not flow to your heart. Likewise if you prefer solid solid state amps to smaller tube amps on power hungry speakers, or vinyl/ digital, etc.

Additionally, people know what they like at the moment, and it's always changing. Along with that, the products are also always changing. It's kind of getting that gorgeous Japanese desert. You take a bite into that little work of art, smile and thank them. But it's bean curd! So in disgust, you spit it out into a napkin when you are alone. A few years later, however, you are really hungry and get a similar desert, and it's more fruity and less "bean curdy", and you think not bad....

Maybe not but a speaker that has no bass will never have a good soundstage since spacial cues come from that. The speaker you describe is to be kind crap. Why would anyone want to buy such a flawed device?
I agree that Japanese desserts suck so we agree on something LOL.
I am not discussing the likes part. YOu can like box speakers, or electrostats, or ribbons or something thats a combo. They are all different in presentation but if they dont play Music, all the music then who really cares. I have heard great sound from all types. I like Wilson, Nola, Scaena, Martin Logan, Magnepan, Quads, Rockports and some others I can think of right now. They are ALL very different but they have one thing in common and that is when set up in a good room they make the world disappear and like the proverbial time machine transport me to another place and time. When this happens my friend then you have something and if it doesnt you have an expensive pile of crap.
Peace and dont eat dessert in that restaurant go get a frozen yogurt or some Hagen Daz....

 

[Priaptor]

Maybe not but a speaker that has no bass will never have a good soundstage since spacial cues come from that. The speaker you describe is to be kind crap. Why would anyone want to buy such a flawed device?
I agree that Japanese desserts suck so we agree on something LOL.
I am not discussing the likes part. YOu can like box speakers, or electrostats, or ribbons or something thats a combo. They are all different in presentation but if they dont play Music, all the music then who really cares. I have heard great sound from all types. I like Wilson, Nola, Scaena, Martin Logan, Magnepan, Quads, Rockports and some others I can think of right now. They are ALL very different but they have one thing in common and that is when set up in a good room they make the world disappear and like the proverbial time machine transport me to another place and time. When this happens my friend then you have something and if it doesnt you have an expensive pile of crap.
Peace and dont eat dessert in that restaurant go get a frozen yogurt or some Hagen Daz....

"They are ALL very different but they have one thing in common and that is when set up in a good room they make the world disappear"

Kind of reminds me of our politicians in DC

 

[Bruce B]

Here is a pic of Nick's new line stage.

 

[MadFloyd]

Here is a pic of Nick's new line stage.
View attachment 12262

First of all, that's GORGEOUS.

Second, I'm confused: dual volume displays but one volume knob and no balance that I can see. Oh wait, is the knob in the center the input knob and the Up/Down buttons the volume? Is there any balance control?

Again, it's a beauty!

 

[Bruce B]

First of all, that's GORGEOUS.

Second, I'm confused: dual volume displays but one volume knob and no balance that I can see. Oh wait, is the knob in the center the input knob and the Up/Down buttons the volume? Is there any balance control?

Again, it's a beauty!

Yes, there is a balance control. Nick was showing a customer and I was watching the numbers on one side go up and the other down. Maybe the remote?

 

[Bill Hart]

Maybe not but a speaker that has no bass will never have a good soundstage since spacial cues come from that. The speaker you describe is to be kind crap. Why would anyone want to buy such a flawed device?
I agree that Japanese desserts suck so we agree on something LOL.
I am not discussing the likes part. YOu can like box speakers, or electrostats, or ribbons or something thats a combo. They are all different in presentation but if they dont play Music, all the music then who really cares. I have heard great sound from all types. I like Wilson, Nola, Scaena, Martin Logan, Magnepan, Quads, Rockports and some others I can think of right now. They are ALL very different but they have one thing in common and that is when set up in a good room they make the world disappear and like the proverbial time machine transport me to another place and time. When this happens my friend then you have something and if it doesnt you have an expensive pile of crap.
Peace and dont eat dessert in that restaurant go get a frozen yogurt or some Hagen Daz....

Elliot- I'm going to stay out of the food debate, but you said at the beginning of your post that a speaker with no bass won't be convincing- on the other hand you list Quads as 'transportational.' (not sure that's a real word).*
I'm a long time Quad owner, decades, in fact, and though I don't currently run them, I still love them to death. But, I wouldn't consider the original Quad to have much real bass, and yet, at least on the right material, it does utterly disappear and can sound like life itself (at least in the midrange).
Please clarify.
Thanks,
Bill Hart
* It is a real word.

 

[microstrip]

Yes, there is a balance control. Nick was showing a customer and I was watching the numbers on one side go up and the other down. Maybe the remote?

Is there a remote? Great news! Does Nick use motorized rotary switches or relays?

 

[microstrip]

Elliot- I'm going to stay out of the food debate, but you said at the beginning of your post that a speaker with no bass won't be convincing- on the other hand you list Quads as 'transportational.' (not sure that's a real word).*
I'm a long time Quad owner, decades, in fact, and though I don't currently run them, I still love them to death. But, I wouldn't consider the original Quad to have much real bass, and yet, at least on the right material, it does utterly disappear and can sound like life itself (at least in the midrange).
Please clarify.
Thanks,
Bill Hart
* It is a real word.

Bill,

Quads - and some other planars - are no so bass shy as most people can think. Even the ESL57 are flat to 40Hz and are, -6dB at 30Hz. If your room has some bass gain with dipoles, this is better than many mini-monitors. They have however strong limitations in bass loudness.

One of the greatest "disappearing" shows that I ever assisted was in a previous listening room : ESL63 driven by home made OTLs (copies of the Technics 20A) driven by an an Audio Research SP15.

 

[puroagave]

Bill,

Quads - and some other planars - are no so bass shy as most people can think. Even the ESL57 are flat to 40Hz and are, -6dB at 30Hz. If your room has some bass gain with dipoles, this is better than many mini-monitors. They have however strong limitations in bass loudness.

One of the greatest "disappearing" shows that I ever assisted was in a previous listening room : ESL63 driven by home made OTLs (copies of the Technics 20A) driven by an an Audio Research SP15.

whart is talking 57s not 63s. i've owned the esl-63 pro and a long term loan of Crosby modded pros and still they don't hold a candle to the 57s (ive owed a few pairs of 57s as well). the first time you hear 57s its like opening a window into the music - where once there was a veil you never noticed now there's seemingly nothing between you and the what's on the record, cd, hirez file or whatever. you have no idea how colored even the most transparent moving coil speaker is in direct comparison to 57s. a friend that heard mine said it was like hearing the inverse of a ribbon mic, if it were possible. the sound is so real at times it transcends all you thought you knew about sound reproduction...enough hyperbole, now back to listening to my stack of new LPs.

 

[microstrip]

whart is talking 57s not 63s. i've owned the esl-63 pro and a long term loan of Crosby modded pros and still they don't hold a candle to the 57s (ive owed a few pairs of 57s as well). the first time you hear 57s its like opening a window into the music - where once there was a veil you never noticed now there's seemingly nothing between you and the what's on the record, cd, hirez file or whatever. you have no idea how colored even the most transparent moving coil speaker is in direct comparison to 57s. a friend that heard mine said it was like hearing the inverse of a ribbon mic, if it were possible. the sound is so real at times it transcends all you thought you knew about sound reproduction...enough hyperbole, now back to listening to my stack of new LPs.

Please note that I was also referring to the ESL57 in the first part of the post.

And audio opinions are really diverse. Although I owned a few pairs of ESL57 - I even traveled to the Huntington factory, where I met Peter Walker, to buy replacement panels for them - I prefer the ESL63. When properly amplified in a proper room with the proper recording IMHO they will do all the wonderful things you so well describe. It is why I still keep a pair of ESL63 just in case ...

 

[rbbert]

Most measurements have the Quad ESL 57 down 5-6 dB at 40 Hz compared to the midrange level. It's a little confusing because they also have a "hump" of 3-4 dB in the 50-100 HZ region, so on a lot of music they will have a pretty solid "foundation".

 

[microstrip]

Most measurements have the Quad ESL 57 down 5-6 dB at 40 Hz compared to the midrange level. It's a little confusing because they also have a "hump" of 3-4 dB in the 50-100 HZ region, so on a lot of music they will have a pretty solid "foundation".

Yes, may be a picture will be better than a thousand words. These are Martin Colloms measurements:

 

[Bruce B]

Is there a remote? Great news! Does Nick use motorized rotary switches or relays?

I believe there was a remote. Nick will have to give you the details.

 

[doshiaudio]

I believe there was a remote. Nick will have to give you the details.

The line stage uses a stepped secondary transformer volume control with 31 secondary positions, shielded sealed relays doing the switching. There is only one relay active at any one volume position. The secondary of the volume control transformer inputs into a line driver using the ecc99 tube in a hybrid follower config feeding a line output transformer. This results in a line stage with 9 or 10 db of gain ( 12bh7 or ecc99) , a sub 30 ohm output impedance and balanced / se outputs with total isolation. This unit also has home theater bypass built in so that an external trigger will passively bypass the balanced ht bypass input to the outputs ( the line stage does not have to be on in HT bypass mode)
The supplied remote provides for input, level, balance and phase selection on all 4 inputs. It can also shut off the display when blue led's are not conducive to the listening mood!

The unit is +/- 1 db 5 Hz to beyond 100khz and will drive loads from 5kohms and above in standard config. 600 ohm loads will need a bigger output coupling cap and can be specially ordered.