Can one get Reference-Level Sound in a non-dedicated room?

[Audiophile Bill]

I think it is a negative. You could accommodate taller speakers if you didn’t have it.

Agreed Ron. Also I feel that a sloping eaves leads to quicker and tricky reflections versus a regular ceiling. I am sure you can mathematically model / simulate this all out - General could do the maths lol. But I would guess that the first reflections are coming to the ear versus the direct sound versus a non sloping ceiling meaning that treating that reflection is more key than ever. Couple that with the fact that the cone of the speakers will be radiating sound waves that are all reflecting at different times due to the slope of the roof changing the geometry.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Marc - just did some further reading on the subject. It seems that a room with sloping eaves BUT with normal height side walls is okay and that makes sense based on my reflections hypothesis as above since they will have more delay. Where the side wall is below ~5 feet then this is where the problem really occurs - this makes sense based on my hypothesis too since the reflections of your driver will conincide almost exclusively with the angled roof unless you have very short speakers. Could just get horns that are highly directional

 

[morricab]

Agreed Ron. Also I feel that a sloping eaves leads to quicker and tricky reflections versus a regular ceiling. I am sure you can mathematically model / simulate this all out - General could do the maths lol. But I would guess that the first reflections are coming to the ear versus the direct sound versus a non sloping ceiling meaning that treating that reflection is more key than ever. Couple that with the fact that the cone of the speakers will be radiating sound waves that are all reflecting at different times due to the slope of the roof changing the geometry.

It behaves more likely like a diffuser, which deliberately randomized the reflection distances, effectively acting like a scrambler of sorts. Also, the non-uniform height will work against strong standing waves. Your comment about it making reflections worse doesn’t hold water with my experience and what I know from great concert halls.

 

[morricab]

Marc - just did some further reading on the subject. It seems that a room with sloping eaves BUT with normal height side walls is okay and that makes sense based on my reflections hypothesis as above since they will have more delay. Where the side wall is below ~5 feet then this is where the problem really occurs - this makes sense based on my hypothesis too since the reflections of your driver will conincide almost exclusively with the angled roof unless you have very short speakers. Could just get horns that are highly directional

Ok , my ceiling starts low behind the speakers sloping up towards the listening position where the wall is over 4 meters high. Side walls are flat and parallel to each other. Not a V shape with speakers in between the inverted V.

 

[DaveyF]

Ok , my ceiling starts low behind the speakers sloping up towards the listening position where the wall is over 4 meters high. Side walls are flat and parallel to each other. Not a V shape with speakers in between the inverted V.

That is exactly the same shape as my small dedicated room. I think the ‘vault’ ceiling gives one a real benefit....and as a fellow a’phile pointed out...it increases the volume of the room.

 

[morricab]

That is exactly the same shape as my small dedicated room. I think the ‘vault’ ceiling gives one a real benefit....and as a fellow a’phile pointed out...it increases the volume of the room.

Yes, and one less set of parallel surfaces to generate room modes. This seems to help bass out a lot.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Ok , my ceiling starts low behind the speakers sloping up towards the listening position where the wall is over 4 meters high. Side walls are flat and parallel to each other. Not a V shape with speakers in between the inverted V.

Brad - your shape is actually ideal and very well suited to horns.

 

[morricab]

Brad - your shape is actually ideal and very well suited to horns.

The damping in the room seems to be quite good as well due perhaps to the wood ceiling. Hand claps die away very quickly and conversation is easy in the room.

 

[SCAudiophile]

The problem with a wide dispersion speaker, even if that dispersion is completely equal at all frequencies, is that you are at the mercy of the reflective surfaces for what frequencies come off that surface. In effect your walls, floor and ceiling become frequency filters.

A speaker with a well controlled dispersion, like a line source dipole minimizes floor and ceiling reflections and virtually eliminates the first sidewall reflection. You do get a back wall (behind the speaker) reflection that is mostly perceived as an increase in spaciousness. Horns will also have controlled directivity and this can allow them to fit ok in a room where a wide dispersion speaker would be a disaster.

It is possible to build direct radiating speakers with controlled directivity. Legacy Audio does just this in models like the Whisper, which would probably excel in a "tough" room.

Yes, definitely agree with the comment on Legacy Audio Focus SE, Aeris, Whisper XDS, V, VALOR and no the small but no less impressive CaliberXD; all these coupled with the time and frequency based active room correction in Wavelet from Legacy which can now also be utilized with non-Legacy speakers (call Legacy for details) can eliminate the room as a factor regardless of size, layout, contents, etc...