Lamm ML3 + LL1, at last!

[ddk]

Steve’s in New Zealand. Not planning on moving threads as I’m having too much fun here for the past 17 days. I don’t get home for another 2 days

Enjoy and safe trip back!
david

 

[Audiophile Bill]

(I promise I am not starting an argument here!) I wonder if somehow the Transparent Audio network boxes soak up a little bit of the precious (little) power the ML3s produce?

Was thinking the same thing Ron. I am not sure what is going on in the “network box” but expect to find resistors and capacitors in the path.

 

[Steve Williams]

Hate to be OT but those reading this thread will hopefully appreciate my thoughts. We are finally back in Auckland and tomorrow we leave for home

We have had gourmet meals for the past 2 1/2 weeks at some of the best lodges in the country. Most of you know that I love ZChinese food. Well tonight we had our final meal together at a Chinese restaurant in the Harbor and it was hands down the best Chinese food meal any of us have ever had. Apparently it was voted the Best Chines cuisine in New Zealand last year

The even better was that the American dollar goes a long way in New Zealand. This meal was amazing

I plan on posting a thread about our experience in this wonderful country and have close to a 1000 photos to cull through

 

[bonzo75]

(I promise I am not starting an argument here!) I wonder if somehow the Transparent Audio network boxes soak up a little bit of the precious (little) power the ML3s produce?

This should work well with the Devialet, especially if used to drive horns. Though I think Odin can add a bit of detail to the vintage ones

 

[morricab]

I think the bass driver is a 12 inch Italian Faital driver.
is the CN 191 only a two way speaker?
The AirScout has JBL 2405 slit tweeters in addition...

Not possible for conversion. The cabinets are totally different. The CN191 is basically a Klipsch corner horn design whereas the Scouts are a backloaded, front scoop design. Yours use a Fane 12 inch woofer and a horn from I am not sure where for the mid range. The CN191 uses a Vitavox horn and S2 driver...we weren't 100% sure yours was an S2 driver. The CN191 uses a 15 inch Vitavox driver that will not be compatible with your cabinet most likely (at least not without serious surgery). By the time you have "converted" you have a whole new speaker...

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Thanks - I had though about it, I even wrote similar things about the Opus, but your word "organic" summarizes it beautifully. It is why I asked for experience of users!

Do you remember that I tried to buy your Opus MM2 but someone was faster than me?

i do remember that.

 

[GMKF]

(I promise I am not starting an argument here!) I wonder if somehow the Transparent Audio network boxes soak up a little bit of the precious (little) power the ML3s produce?

What ever the components in the box are, they are going to consume some wattage.
I get the concept behind the cables but I'm highly sceptical.

 

[microstrip]

(I promise I am not starting an argument here!) I wonder if somehow the Transparent Audio network boxes soak up a little bit of the precious (little) power the ML3s produce?

The network boxes do not take any of the power of the ML3s (or any other amplifier) produce. But yes, I know that some people have a strong bias against network cables and even if we show them technical proofs that their arguments are false they will keep their prejudice. I have often wrote that no one has ever presented an acceptable technical explanation why cables sound so different and I do not expect a different think about network cables.

 

[microstrip]

What ever the components in the box are, they are going to consume some wattage.
I get the concept behind the cables but I'm highly sceptical.

No, they are not. Their filtering action is in the hundreds of kilohertz frequecny.

 

[microstrip]

Was thinking the same thing Ron. I am not sure what is going on in the “network box” but expect to find resistors and capacitors in the path.

No resistors in the path and capacitors do not dissipate power. Only very poor quality capacitors or electrolytic capacitors with high ESR dissipate power.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

What ever the components in the box are, they are going to consume some wattage.
I get the concept behind the cables but I'm highly sceptical.

No, they are not. Their filtering action is in the hundreds of kilohertz frequecny.

and a significant portion of the performance boost from the Opus MM speaker cables network pods comes from mechanical (dampning and anti-resonance) advantages. footers on those pods make significant differences.

when Transparent designed those pods they kept getting more and more performance as they increased the size of the pods to the point where they exceeded what was commercially workable. then they had to see how much of that prototype performance could be retained in a reasonably size final product.

 

[LL21]

Thanks - I had though about it, I even wrote similar things about the Opus, but your word "organic" summarizes it beautifully. It is why I asked for experience of users!

Do you remember that I tried to buy your Opus MM2 but someone was faster than me?

i do remember that.

I also remember that and also looked seriously at them...and remember telling Mike i was seriously interested but in the end decided it was not the right time to be spending that kind of money. Today, I am blessed to own the TA Opus Gen 5s...it was a more appropriate time when I got them...and the price was also right.

I will say, Mike and Micro, both of your systems have certainly moved forward at light speed! I cannot complain for myself either, and it has been nice to read about the evolution of your systems while listening at home...

 

[Folsom]

The Transparent boxes have parallel zobels in them. If they do anything to power, they give you more from the amp because it isn't driving harder against frequencies that the zobels squash.

 

[dan31]

A decent read to familiarize ones self with speaker cables and design choices.

https://www.iconoclastcable.com/story/speaker.pdf

 

[Steve Williams]

The network boxes do not take any of the power of the ML3s (or any other amplifier) produce. But yes, I know that some people have a strong bias against network cables and even if we show them technical proofs that their arguments are false they will keep their prejudice. I have often wrote that no one has ever presented an acceptable technical explanation why cables sound so different and I do not expect a different think about network cables.

The interesting thing is that you can change the network box settings and you change the sound of the cable. That sort of says something about cable boxes.

I’m interested if anyone can explain what they do when they optimize your network box for the gear you use.

 

[christoph]

Evening Chris. Yes the CN 191 is a 2 way using the S2 and AK151 15” woofer. 2nd order crossover. Whole thing is horn loade giving 105dB.

Thank you very much, Bill

 

[christoph]

If you are wondering - it is good to 16khz since no tweeter and s2 extends to 16khz

That would indeed have been my next question
Thanks again Bill

 

[christoph]

Not possible for conversion. The cabinets are totally different. The CN191 is basically a Klipsch corner horn design whereas the Scouts are a backloaded, front scoop design. Yours use a Fane 12 inch woofer and a horn from I am not sure where for the mid range. The CN191 uses a Vitavox horn and S2 driver...we weren't 100% sure yours was an S2 driver. The CN191 uses a 15 inch Vitavox driver that will not be compatible with your cabinet most likely (at least not without serious surgery). By the time you have "converted" you have a whole new speaker...

Thanks Brad.
I meant mount the midhorn and driver into another cabinet, not convert the AirScout cabinet...

 

[morricab]

Thanks Brad.
I meant mount the midhorn and driver into another cabinet, not convert the AirScout cabinet...

OOOOHHH a DIY project! We can have a sit down and design something...

I know a very very good woodworker/furniture maker (he also used to work on pipe organs) who might be interested in making a klipschorn style folded horn to provide the foundation for that mid/horn of yours. Might want to keep the JBL tweeter handy in case the highs are not airy enough... A full active design would be potentially awesome...

 

[microstrip]

Your issue is a mismatch between your speakers and the amps no cable's going to fix that! Why don't you spend that money on some vintage horns and find out what the ML3's are really all about instead of wasting it on cables that you don't need?

david

David,

Just to remember that I am still not 100% sure it is a mismatch between the speakers and the amps. Although I can't find anyone currently owning ML3/XLFs, I have found several references to the ML3 / MAXX2 and MAX3 pairing. The impedance of the XLF's and the MAXX's is very similar, but the XLF sensitivity is 3dB higher than that of the MAXX.