Lamm ML3 + LL1, at last!

[Steve williams]

David,

Just to remember that I am still not 100% sure it is a mismatch between the speakers and the amps. Although I can't find anyone currently owning ML3/XLFs, I have found several references to the ML3 / MAXX2 and MAX3 pairing. The impedance of the XLF's and the MAXX's is very similar, but the XLF sensitivity is 3dB higher than that of the MAXX.

Not sure I agree micro as my speaker and yours is very similar. IIRC mine are 95 dB efficient and yours are 94 DB. I tend to agree with David. I believe you haven’t experienced the ML3 and what it is capable of

 

[microstrip]

Not sure I agree micro as my speaker and yours is very similar. IIRC mine are 95 dB efficient and yours are 94 DB. I tend to agree with David. I believe you haven’t experienced the ML3 and what it is capable of

Steve,
Can't understand what you exactly mean. Do you agree with David that the XLF is a poor match with the ML3? I am still considering that probably a cable change will help, do you exclude it?

 

[Folsom]

Micro the cables I would change from what you are using would be the TA's.

 

[microstrip]

Micro the cables I would change from what you are using would be the TA's.

Thanks - I feel the same since some time ago ... It is why I asked for people experience with other quality cables with Lamm SETs ...

 

[Steve williams]

Steve,
Can't understand what you exactly mean. Do you agree with David that the XLF is a poor match with the ML3? I am still considering that probably a cable change will help, do you exclude it?

I’m saying that I have no problems such as yours and I have very similar speakers as yours with almost identical efficiency. I am saying that with the cables I use I have no hum. You should consider going to school on my putt as the amp with my speakers is very special. I’m sure you should be able to discover the same. For what you paid for the amps it is an outright steal and I personally would never part with them. They sound super good on efficient horns but I’m not a horn guy.

 

[microstrip]

At last I have now got a pair of Valhalla 2 speaker cables to try in the Lamm ML3 / XLF. First impressions are a very positive - the ML3 seems more powerful and there is even more presence and air in the soundstage. They sound very fast, but not aggressive at all.

The cables are unfortunately almost new - they only got a 24 hour burn-in in the distributor Vidor machine. They now must go through an intensive burn-in in an alternative system using 8 ohm load resistors.

 

[Legolas]

At last I have now got a pair of Valhalla 2 speaker cables to try in the Lamm ML3 / XLF. First impressions are a very positive - the ML3 seems more powerful and there is even more presence and air in the soundstage. They sound very fast, but not aggressive at all.

The cables are unfortunately almost new - they only got a 24 hour burn-in in the distributor Vidor machine. They now must go through an intensive burn-in in an alternative system using 8 ohm load resistors.

Microstrip, how are your ML3s? I don't see them in your signature.

 

[microstrip]

Microstrip, how are your ML3s? I don't see them in your signature.

Idling in this moment. I am now playing with the Extreme server, probably soon I will re-listen to them. I usually list on the signature what I am currently listening.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Idling in this moment. I am now playing with the Extreme server, probably soon I will re-listen to them. I usually list on the signature what I am currently listening.

Congrats on the new extreme Micro... wow nice to be able to have the Lamms on the bench to bring into play.

 

[Steve williams]

Idling in this moment. I am now playing with the Extreme server, probably soon I will re-listen to them. I usually list on the signature what I am currently listening.

Finally.

About time you got tuned in

 

[Hieukm]

Dear Microstrip,

Do you find anything strange when listening to vocal with your Valhalla 2 cable ?

 

[andromedaaudio]

as a 10 year owner of Transparent Opus MM speakers cables, even owning 2 pair of them for a year, i have a theory about why they were not an ideal match for the ML3's.

i used the Opus MM speaker cables with Wilson WP 6.0's, the Kharma Exquisite 1D, the Von Schweikert VR9SE, and the Evolution Acoustics MM3's. so across a wide variety of speaker systems. the Opus MM seemed to be very slightly dark on top, and bring an extra dollop of dimensional bass sexiness. it was always organic and cohesive sounding. loved those cables.

as those are also plainly attributes of the ML3's, it's just too much of a good thing.

we can love the character of gear, but sometimes it's better for the gear to not have any of it's own. ML3's need cables to just get out of the way.

I think mike is right here , this falls right in the lane of the cables being low pass filters .
A lot of comments i read have mentioned lamm sounding slightly dark, but that depends on the used speaker as well off course , most FR s of speakers are not a straight line/ neutral most roll of on top already, so to some the lamm may sound perfectly neutral to others not
Now if the transparent and lamm are combined it might be to much of a good thing , what most people then do in response is turn up the volume asking more of the lamm amplifier iow the amp has to work harder and there is to much bass in the sound, beacause the output balance/ frequency response has changed in favour of the bass , youre probably talking 1-2 db s shift from one end of the slope to the other
As said here already i think especially with lamm one has to be very carefull with those networked cables , give others(neutral cables ) at least a try

PS A low pass flilter is basically a coil in series ( or capacitator in parralel ) which allows low freqs to pass through and high freqs not ( very simply stated ) , they are also used in speaker X overs .
This is a gentle slope however not an abrupt phenomenon , depends also on the order , you have first order like mentioned here but you have 2nd 3 rd etc.
Where this cut off starts depends on the value of the coil if its a very low mH value , it stays out of the audible range altogether( blocks noise ???) but reading the comments im not so sure it does that

 

[andromedaaudio]

But ,...... there is a catch with wilson speakers .
From the pics i have seen and read from various wilson installs one can change the mid and tweeter output via out board resistors at the back of the speakers .
So IF the transparent cable works indeed in the audible band , one can change the resistors and get a straight FR again , i advise only to do this with a wilson expert preferably with loudspeaker measurement gear

 

[JackD201]

If only you could lend Micro your MBU SCs Steve. When a friend tried my single run on his Alexx's and his Ref 75 SE it was as if he switched to an amp with much more headroom because low level resolution jumped while not restricting power. I believe you had a similar experience where your nominal volume settings went down a couple of notches for the same amount of satisfactiion. Even if I have lots of power in reserve it was the same for me too.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Micro did the wilson expert ( if he was there not sure , second hand purchase ??) adjust the wilson settings by ear with the transparent cable in place .
If so i would advise before giving the final opinion over the XLF - LAMM ML 3 combo to adjust the XLF again with non network cables , possibly jacks advise lol

Besides that the XLF impedance drops to 3,2 ohms at 510 hz , stereophile review ,I dont know the number of the X2.

Sensitivity is also a bit lower then the X2 here is what JA measured .

 

[Steve williams]

But ,...... there is a catch with wilson speakers .
From the pics i have seen and read from various wilson installs one can change the mid and tweeter output via out board resistors at the back of the speakers .
So IF the transparent cable works indeed in the audible band , one can change the resistors and get a straight FR again , i advise only to do this with a wilson expert preferably with loudspeaker measurement gear

If only you could lend Micro your MBU SCs Steve. When a friend tried my single run on his Alexx's and his Ref 75 SE it was as if he switched to an amp with much more headroom because low level resolution jumped while not restricting power. I believe you had a similar experience where your nominal volume settings went down a couple of notches for the same amount of satisfactiion. Even if I have lots of power in reserve it was the same for me too.

as Jack saiid I use a full loom of MB Ultra I’m my system. It was a marriage designed in heaven. They are going to bury me with those cables as i will never sell them

ive tasked Micro about MB Ultra but he remains resistant

 

[Mike Lavigne]

as Jack saiid I use a full loom of MB Ultra I’m my system. It was a marriage designed in heaven. They are going to bury me with those cables as i will never sell them

ive asked Micro about MB Ultra but he remains resistant

if Micro thinks ML3's are difficult to sell in Europe, a loom of very spendy cables (unknown in Europe) would take that challenge to another level. resistance is entirely logical. and i'm not dissing the MB Ultra's. system's i've heard it in (at shows and at Steve's) have been exemplary.

 

[Steve williams]

if Micro thinks ML3's are difficult to sell in Europe, a loom of very spendy cables (unknown in Europe) would take that challenge to another level. resistance is entirely logical. and i'm not dissing the MB Ultra's. system's i've heard it in (at shows and at Steve's) have been exemplary.

what you don't realize Mike is that you never see a MB cable for sale unless the seller is moving up in the product and/or needs a longer length cable. Most users regard them as keepers in their system

I will never sell mine.I would bet Jack feels the same way

Finally there are countless users in Europe and Asia and I would bet the bulk of MB business is global rather than in the USA. No one buys MB cables to flip them as they are truly system changers

 

[LL21]

But ,...... there is a catch with wilson speakers .
From the pics i have seen and read from various wilson installs one can change the mid and tweeter output via out board resistors at the back of the speakers .
So IF the transparent cable works indeed in the audible band , one can change the resistors and get a straight FR again , i advise only to do this with a wilson expert preferably with loudspeaker measurement gear

Totally agree. I have had the resistor changed to make a speaker i almost refused to take home AFTER it had been shipped (2nd hand) to the local demo dealer's store due to piercing treble...to something i have owned for nearly 10 years with a sublime treble. The change was less than 2db in treble performance because the other room needed it due to listening distance and size of room compared with ours at that time. But it made a huge difference in treble performance.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

what you don't realize Mike is that you never see a MB cable for sale unless the seller is moving up in the product and/or needs a longer length cable. Most users regard them as keepers in their system

I will never sell mine.I would bet Jack feels the same way

Finally there are countless users in Europe and Asia and I would bet the bulk of MB business is global rather than in the USA. No one buys MB cables to flip them as they are truly system changers

no one is disputing the goodness of the MB Ultra's, or the loyalty of owners.

Micro likes to 'investigate' various types of gear. he tries this and that and gear moves in and out of his system. an end game plan is essential for him. Jack is an MS dealer. and you are.....well......you.