Lamm ML3 + LL1, at last!

[microstrip]

But ,...... there is a catch with wilson speakers .
From the pics i have seen and read from various wilson installs one can change the mid and tweeter output via out board resistors at the back of the speakers .
So IF the transparent cable works indeed in the audible band , one can change the resistors and get a straight FR again , i advise only to do this with a wilson expert preferably with loudspeaker measurement gear

Your IF is deeply wrong. Transparent Audio cables do not act in the audio band. I said it several times in this forum, however it is one of the favorite speculative items of this board.

The networks are tuned well outside the audio band. They do not change the frequency response of systems like resistors in the crossovers.

 

[andromedaaudio]

If i get my own hifishop sometime in the future.
I ll swap some second hand transparent and mit and let the clio Fw 01 interface / 11 software with calibrated measurement microphone decide.
I ll post the results

 

[microstrip]

as Jack saiid I use a full loom of MB Ultra I’m my system. It was a marriage designed in heaven. They are going to bury me with those cables as i will never sell them

ive tasked Micro about MB Ultra but he remains resistant

I do not expect miracles from cables. They can fine tune a system but can't change the main characteristics of it. I can't believe that the MB ultra's are the only existing cable that can make a ML3 /XLF system sound good ...

As I told elsewhere one the great drawbacks of the LL1 / ML3 for me is the absence of remote and the double volume control.

I have learned from experience that buying products that are not reasonably distributed in Europe can be an expensive mistake. Contrary to Steve, I am not sure of what equipment will be in my room by the end of the year or even when I retire!

 

[microstrip]

If i get my own hifishop sometime in the future.
I ll swap some second hand transparent and mit and let the clio 11 with calibrated measurement microphone decide.
I ll post the results

Probably you will get some vintage cheap TA cables that bare no resemblance with the cables I am addressing (Opus MM2) .

I remember that Martin Colloms measured TA XL in Hifi News and found that the turn point was around 180 kHz. My analyzer goes only to 48 KHz and shows flat response. FIY Transparent cables are tuned to the output impedance of the sender and input impedance of the receiver, you must use the proper impedances to measure them.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I heard for jonathan valin loudspeakercables are very important.
Its the only way to find his magicos back as they keep disappearing

 

[Steve Williams]

I do not expect miracles from cables. They can fine tune a system but can't change the main characteristics of it. I can't believe that the MB ultra's are the only existing cable that can make a ML3 /XLF system sound good

i am sure they aren't however have been a Wilson owner for decades longer than you and have tried many of the good ones and TBH nothing comes close to MB

 

[andromedaaudio]

Probably you will get some vintage cheap TA cables that bare no resemblance with the cables I am addressing (Opus MM2) .

I remember that Martin Colloms measured TA XL in Hifi News and found that the turn point was around 180 kHz. My analyzer goes only to 48 KHz and shows flat response. FIY Transparent cables are tuned to the output impedance of the sender and input impedance of the receiver, you must use the proper impedances to measure them.

I measure another way , I put the signal generator on the loudspeaker cable terminals. Which i have disconnected from the power amp
I have a fixed mike position for example tw axis 1m distance and make some 20 hz - 20 kHz sweeps.
With normal cables and network cables easy
If i measure slight roll off im done

 

[Steve Williams]

Jack is an MS dealer. and you are.....well......you.

and you are you. I would bet money that if they were in your system your thoughts would be quite similar. I have no pony in the game. I paid hard cash for the cables. Took me over 3 years to acquire the full loom and I guess that makes me , well, me as there is never a way these cables come out of my system

 

[Steve Williams]

They can fine tune a system but can't change the main characteristics of it

precisely....isn't that the whole point.

 

[JackD201]

no one is disputing the goodness of the MB Ultra's, or the loyalty of owners.

Micro likes to 'investigate' various types of gear. he tries this and that and gear moves in and out of his system. an end game plan is essential for him. Jack is an MS dealer. and you are.....well......you.

10 years in, I think micro knows me better than most here Mike

 

[Tango]

For whatever reasons he does not want to keep the Lamm. I don't think cable is one of them. I tried the ML3 with MIT, Siltech and Kuro. All these are not cable of choice for DDK who suggested and sold me the Lamm. Yet they sounded fine to me. Just one suits my preference more than the others. Imo you don't need a certain cable for the ML3 to sound great. More important is a pair of matching speakers to really hear what they can do. Btw, if you described the ML3 as dark, something in the system makes it dark not the amps.

 

[Steve Williams]

I still maintain that the ML3 with MB Ultra will do everything you want. I am speaking as "me", a user. I have no pony in the game.

 

[Leif S]

I do not expect miracles from cables. They can fine tune a system but can't change the main characteristics of it. I can't believe that the MB ultra's are the only existing cable that can make a ML3 /XLF system sound good ...

As I told elsewhere one the great drawbacks of the LL1 / ML3 for me is the absence of remote and the double volume control.

I have learned from experience that buying products that are not reasonably distributed in Europe can be an expensive mistake. Contrary to Steve, I am not sure of what equipment will be in my room by the end of the year or even when I retire!

Hi microstrip,

I would love to let you demo some MasterBuilt cables

 

[Steve Williams]

Hi microstrip,

I would love to let you demo some MasterBuilt cables

There you go Francisco.......

a chance to call us all wrong

 

[PeterA]

For whatever reasons he does not want to keep the Lamm. I don't think cable is one of them. I tried the ML3 with MIT, Siltech and Kuro. All these are not cable of choice for DDK who suggested and sold me the Lamm. Yet they sounded fine to me. Just one suits my preference more than the others. Imo you don't need a certain cable for the ML3 to sound great. More important is a pair of matching speakers to really hear what they can do. Btw, if you described the ML3 as dark, something in the system makes it dark not the amps.

Micro, what are your ML3 amplifiers sitting on?

 

[ddk]

Probably you will get some vintage cheap TA cables that bare no resemblance with the cables I am addressing (Opus MM2) .

I remember that Martin Colloms measured TA XL in Hifi News and found that the turn point was around 180 kHz. My analyzer goes only to 48 KHz and shows flat response. FIY Transparent cables are tuned to the output impedance of the sender and input impedance of the receiver, you must use the proper impedances to measure them.

In part I agree with your assessments, irrespective of personal taste I don't believe that MB or any other speaker cable will fix the real problem, ML3 and XLF are a poor match. While initial trial might sound fine longer term experience reveals weaknesses of this combination, I wouldn't want to live long with this setup either. The choice is either the speaker or the electronics and in this case it seems like you've already made your choice.

david

 

[microstrip]

Micro, what are your ML3 amplifiers sitting on?

On the floor, or in the wheeled platforms when moving ... They are heavy.

 

[microstrip]

In part I agree with your assessments, irrespective of personal taste I don't believe that MB or any other speaker cable will fix the real problem, ML3 and XLF are a poor match. While initial trial might sound fine longer term experience reveals weaknesses of this combination, I wouldn't want to live long with this setup either. The choice is either the speaker or the electronics and in this case it seems like you've already made your choice.

david

Nothing really definitive until I manage to sell the Lamm's, I have a couple of friends coveting my XLF's ...

 

[bonzo75]

Nothing really definitive until I manage to sell the Lamm's, I have a couple of friends coveting my XLF's ...

Please don't join the horn brigade, I need some means to pass time

 

[microstrip]

Hi microstrip,

I would love to let you demo some MasterBuilt cables

I would like to listen to them, but with a system that I could believe that can give your cables a fair opportunity to shine.

But before taking any action I would need to see a retail price list of your cables - I never try something that I do not know the price. And as far as I guess, the Ultra's are really expensive.