Can one find realism in box speakers that cost less than $150K after experiencing dynamics of horns and horn-type speakers?

[bonzo75]

This change in direction is so awesome

 

[LL21]

Fantastic comments here...how much are these various speakers? Roma Triode? Roma?

 

[DaveC]

Are those iron-core inductors I see in the crossover? These can be improved significantly by using ribbon air-core inductors like the 12 gauge paper-in-oil ones from jensencapacitors.com. I change all of my speaker crossovers to have these. Big sound quality upgrade.

Steve N.

They look like air core inductors and it's NOT true that iron core inductors are always bad. The Mundorf zero-ohm inductors are an example of a part that is often superior to air core depending on application.

 

[DaveC]

Dear forum members,

What I wrote below are my personal thoughts. They are not facts. I am not an authority on the subject. I am not as experienced in hifi as most of you. Please read it under these conditions.

For the last 20 years I purchased and used lots of speakers.

The most memorable ones are Sonus Faber Guarnieri, Focal Utopia Diablo, Focal Utopia Scala v2, Wilson Sophia 3, Wilson Sasha, Wilson Alexia, Magico Q3. I may miss some names here.

Out of all these speakers Wilson Sasha and Alexia were the most enjoyable ones. My first criteria are realism and musicality. The feeling of being there and feeling the emotion. I never cared for technicality. Technicality is fun for a few minutes. After that, it is boring. Just like a Bugatti Veyron. It is perfect on paper but if I had to choose only one car to own I would never have a Veyron regardless of cost.

Last year I visited Munich 2018 and covered the show. I listened to nearly every speaker on every price range including statement products. Some were very very good, some were a disappointment. We always say shows never show the true nature of a speaker but if a speaker is 200K USD it has to surprise me in any condition even a little bit.

Anyway, near the end of my Munich journey I visited the Diesis Audio room. I was stuck on my place. Hairs on my arms stood up. I was nearly crying I swear to you. I swear to you on anything. Vyger rig connected to Ongaku connected to Diesis Audio Triode speakers.

I never owned a horn or an open baffle speaker so the sound was so new to me. It was nothing I heard and I heard a lot in my house and my friends' houses.

The realism was scary. The owner of Diesis Audio Guiseppe saw how I felt about the sound and we started to talk. With our talk I immediately understood that this guy designs speakers not just for business but for the love of music. He was first a music man then a hifi company owner.

I didn't think twice and ordered Caput Mundi model right away. I didn't have money for the Triode. I never thought about second hand value etc. The sound I heard there was what I was looking for in this hobby for the last 20 years. There was no contest.

Now I have the speakers for 3-4 months and I am as happy as I can possibly be. Everyday I am amazed. And when I visit my friends' systems that I adored before, they all sound like a "speaker" after my speakers. I really understood what the term "realism" and "being there" means after I heard these speakers.

I have great experience with conventional speakers but I have very few experience with OB and horns so what I am referring with Diesis speakers may be correct with most of the OB & horn speakers out there. I don't know. I also want to add again that these are my own feelings and thoughts. They are not facts. We all have different motives in this hobby but if you never listened to these speakers before, please do. You will be surprised.

With love and respect.

Cagdas

Thanks for the report, I've been aware of these for a few years but never had the chance to hear them. IMO, they are a good example of a domestic horn done right. I prefer BR to OB bass, but minor details...

 

[Ron Resnick]

Parkcaka, I am with you 100%. I had the good (bad*) fortune to hear the Roma model @ Rhapsody in NYC a couple months back. I currently own Alexia (v1) and like you I have loved the musicality and overall delivery. But the Diesis changed my perception and my expectation of what to expect from a speaker. I was more impressed with what I heard from the “Roma” model than I was listening to the Wilson WAMM. That is not a comment of technical virtues, just the impression the speakers made. Lifelike realism, an uncanny ease and flow to the sound, instantly engaging and not requiring monstrous power (ala Dag’ Relentless). Simple form factor, decent WAF, and then the sound...

Did you compare the Caputi to the Roma directly?

* I only say “bad” with respect to the fact I now have to find a way to put Roma in my own room. Fortunately the Minister of Finance is warming to the idea, slowly.

That is a fascinating development, Bob!

Purely out of curiosity what other horn speakers have you heard?

 

[Ron Resnick]

Dear forum members,

What I wrote below are my personal thoughts. They are not facts. I am not an authority on the subject. I am not as experienced in hifi as most of you. Please read it under these conditions.

For the last 20 years I purchased and used lots of speakers.

The most memorable ones are Sonus Faber Guarnieri, Focal Utopia Diablo, Focal Utopia Scala v2, Wilson Sophia 3, Wilson Sasha, Wilson Alexia, Magico Q3. I may miss some names here.

Out of all these speakers Wilson Sasha and Alexia were the most enjoyable ones. My first criteria are realism and musicality. The feeling of being there and feeling the emotion. I never cared for technicality. Technicality is fun for a few minutes. After that, it is boring. Just like a Bugatti Veyron. It is perfect on paper but if I had to choose only one car to own I would never have a Veyron regardless of cost.

Last year I visited Munich 2018 and covered the show. I listened to nearly every speaker on every price range including statement products. Some were very very good, some were a disappointment. We always say shows never show the true nature of a speaker but if a speaker is 200K USD it has to surprise me in any condition even a little bit.

Anyway, near the end of my Munich journey I visited the Diesis Audio room. I was stuck on my place. Hairs on my arms stood up. I was nearly crying I swear to you. I swear to you on anything. Vyger rig connected to Ongaku connected to Diesis Audio Triode speakers.

I never owned a horn or an open baffle speaker so the sound was so new to me. It was nothing I heard and I heard a lot in my house and my friends' houses.

The realism was scary. The owner of Diesis Audio Guiseppe saw how I felt about the sound and we started to talk. With our talk I immediately understood that this guy designs speakers not just for business but for the love of music. He was first a music man then a hifi company owner.

I didn't think twice and ordered Caput Mundi model right away. I didn't have money for the Triode. I never thought about second hand value etc. The sound I heard there was what I was looking for in this hobby for the last 20 years. There was no contest.

Now I have the speakers for 3-4 months and I am as happy as I can possibly be. Everyday I am amazed. And when I visit my friends' systems that I adored before, they all sound like a "speaker" after my speakers. I really understood what the term "realism" and "being there" means after I heard these speakers.

I have great experience with conventional speakers but I have very few experience with OB and horns so what I am referring with Diesis speakers may be correct with most of the OB & horn speakers out there. I don't know. I also want to add again that these are my own feelings and thoughts. They are not facts. We all have different motives in this hobby but if you never listened to these speakers before, please do. You will be surprised.

With love and respect.

Cagdas

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Thank you for telling us this wonderful story! I am delighted for you that you have found your sonic salvation!

 

[Bobvin]

That is a fascinating development, Bob!

Purely out of curiosity what other horn speakers have you heard?

Hi Ron, I’ve really only heard Avantguarde before in any kind of a listening situation, not including what I heard at RMAF a couple years back. It was Avantguarde that made me sit up and take notice of how far horns had come. But the Diesis approach with horn + open-baffle that was unique (to me).

I was gobsmacked when I heard the Roma, not in a way where you think it is so amazingly different at first, but once you start listening it is clear these are extremely special speakers. I haven’t heard anything for very long while where I came home and thought my system was a little broken... it took several weeks of not listening to my system (vacation) before I stopped comparing my Alexia to the Roma.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Bob, indeed (in my view depending on the music you’re listening to), horns can do that to you!

 

[bonzo75]

As evidenced in Munich, they can do it better on all music as shown by WE. From large scale symphonies to vocals to reggae mix

 

[Rhapsody]

Fantastic comments here...how much are these various speakers? Roma Triode? Roma?

They are less in Italy

The US prices are:

Ludos- $25K

Aura - $35K

Caput Mundi - $59K

Roma - $99K

Roma Triode - $180K

 

[Rhapsody]

Tonality may be my strongest characteristic for any speaker, with coherence and dynamic facility coming along. And whatever is the form factor, full range orchestral/symphonic is the gauge for me.

We don't have the array of native horn offerings in the US - at least to my knowledge - that is available elsewhere. And with that seems to come less information than is available for the likes of Wilson, YG, etc. Thus, less exposure. So I ask those more knowledgeable.

I can get a nice pair of box speakers here for under $100k. But a pair of horns that tick the boxes, sound natural and have the level of support I get from Wilson - I don't know what that would be. Maybe Oswald Mills? I'd like to know. Caeser's post poses a challenging question.

Tima,

Please come by for a visit if ever in NYC.....

 

[Empirical Audio]

They look like air core inductors and it's NOT true that iron core inductors are always bad. The Mundorf zero-ohm inductors are an example of a part that is often superior to air core depending on application.

They look like toroidal inductors, not air-core and certainly not air-core ribbons.

There are good air-core and not so good. Jensencapacitors.com is the best I have found. I would put them up against Mundorf any day. This removes the magnetic hysteresis and saturation issues of iron-core inductors.

Steve N.

 

[microstrip]

(...) Anyway, near the end of my Munich journey I visited the Diesis Audio room. I was stuck on my place. Hairs on my arms stood up. I was nearly crying I swear to you. I swear to you on anything. Vyger rig connected to Ongaku connected to Diesis Audio Triode speakers. (...)

Thanks for pointing us this brand. Do you know where we can we find a price list of Diesis Audio speakers?

 

[Rhapsody]

Thanks for pointing us this brand. Do you know where we can we find a price list of Diesis Audio speakers?

They are less in Italy

The US prices are: US (All shipping costs, installation and US Import VAT included)

Ludos- $25Kusd

Aura - $35Kusd

Caput Mundi - $59Kusd

Roma - $99Kusd

Roma Triode - $180Kusd

Euro prices for European markets- (VAT and shipping NOT included)

Ludos $15,700 Euro

Aura $21,000 Euro

Caput Mundi $43,500 Euro

Roma $80K Euro

Roma Triode $150K Euro

 

[microstrip]

They are less in Italy

The US prices are: US (All shipping costs and US Import VAT included)

Ludos- $29K

Aura - $39K

Caput Mundi - $59K

Roma - $99K

Roma Triode - $180K

Euro prices for European markets- (VAT not included)

Ludos $15,700 Euro

Aura $21,000 Euro

Caput Mundi $43,500 Euro

Roma $80K Euro

Roma Triode $150K Euro

Thanks - but something looks wrong with the USD/Euro prices - why does the Aura scale to almost 1/2 39k/21k (ignoring the currency) and the Triode is 180k/150k?

 

[Folsom]

I don’t see why there is such a jump to Triode... seems a bit silly. But I like where they’re going with stuff in general.

 

[Rhapsody]

Thanks - but something looks wrong with the USD/Euro prices - why does the Aura scale to almost 1/2 39k/21k (ignoring the currency) and the Triode is 180k/150k?

Sorry, typo originally Ludos in US are $25K and Aura are $35K. On the Ludos and Aura there are some extra costs with shipping/crates for us to bring them into the US. It's not an issue with the larger models. We also include all shipping, US VAT and installation for US models, which is absorbed in the larger models but has to be added in to the Ludos and Aura.

 

[Rhapsody]

I don’t see why there is such a jump to Triode... seems a bit silly. But I like where they’re going with stuff in general.

Pretty much every part, wiring and Ebony (front panel and horn) vs. standard finished in the Roma Triode is upgraded in the Roma Triode vs the Roma.

 

[KeithR]

bummed I didn't know about these while I was in NYC a few weeks ago. would have stopped by your salon, Bob

 

[Rhapsody]

bummed I didn't know about these while I was in NYC a few weeks ago. would have stopped by your salon, Bob

Agree, bummer, hopefully next time. You are always welcome.

Btw, my place is more a "laboratory" vs. "Salon"