Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[Steve Williams]

At any rate, I think I have made my point and don't feel a need to dwell on the issue.

This is a first class piece of equipment that came about from 2 prior iterations and this iteration is the creme de la creme. I feel it should be able to stand on it's own merits

You heard no difference with fiber optic and chalk it up to a $300 listening test.

 

[Rhapsody]

At any rate, I think I have made my point and don't feel a need to dwell on the issue.

This is a first class piece of equipment that came about from 2 prior iterations and this iteration is the creme de la creme. I feel it should be able to stand on it's own merits

"You heard no difference with fiber optic and chalk it up to a $300 listening test.

"

The Extreme does stand on it's own merits. The "tweaks" as you refer to them are necessary items for any server that one might purchase. They are not specific tweeks that are required to make the Extreme strutt it's stuff.

"You heard no difference with fiber optic and chalk it up to a $300 listening test.[/QUOTE]"

I don't understand what you mean here. I didn't do any testing. I've been using FO for 5+ years. I just bought the $300 set up for the heck of it. My FO set up that I had would have probably sounded the same.

 

[Taiko Audio]

I get your point. I understand

My point is this is the most expensive unit of its kind and IMO it should perform to the max by simply plug and play Emile is a genius at this but yet somehow he has overlooked this???

Hi Steve,

I understand how this can look. As Bob correctly pointed out, you don't need any of it. They are all merely tweaks.

By now there is a very large market for accessories for tweaking server / streamer based playback. Fundamentally it's not that different from accessories which have been developed over the years for vinyl or cd playback. It just all comes with new tags.

Back in the day you had appliances like the genesis digital lens, to clean up your spdif or aes/ebu signal, now you have devices doing something similar for USB or Networking, just a lot more of them. You had Wadia with their fiber interface, now you have MSB with the MSB Pro USB, and you have Fiber networking.

It is a bit more complex as there are now 2 interfaces in play, transport to dac and transport to internet. Both are tweakable. And there are so many companies building these tweaks nowadays. Giving you so (too) many "ways to Rome".

What I am doing here is simply answering questions for people who want to tweak. Is it worth the investment? Well percentage wise, I'd say no. Does a Euro 10.000 USB cable add 33% performance to a Euro 20.000 server? Absolutely not. Does that same USB cable make a Euro 10.000 server perform at the level of a 20.000 Euro server? No way. Does it make a MSB reference perform like a Select? I would be highly surprised. Does an Euro 400 investment in a fiber network improve the Euro 20.000 server by 2%? That just actually might do it, maybe even 3%.

Things like your network setup, USB cable, powercord, footers, fuses, they all influence "performance" or have at least the ability to "voice" the sound towards your personal preference. They are also all out of a designers control.

 

[Taiko Audio]

This is a first class piece of equipment that came about from 2 prior iterations and this iteration is the creme de la creme. I feel it should be able to stand on it's own merits

I (unsurprisingly) agree, if you skim over the thread it's easy to get an impression you need all these tweaks to get good performance. That is simply not true.

 

[Steve Williams]

Thanks Emile for adding some sense to this

 

[Number9]

To me all that should be required is an USB cable. Plug and play

Maybe look at this scenario like you would a power cable into your Lamm amplifiers.

 

[Steve Williams]

Maybe look at this scenario like you would a power cable into your Lamm amplifiers.

I have and that's why I said IMO all that should be necessary is an USB cable. Perhaps you misunderstood my point

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I (unsurprisingly) agree, if you skim over the thread it's easy to get an impression you need all these tweaks to get good performance. That is simply not true.

just adding the Extreme for me was eye-opening as to a big step up.

but.....that lower noise floor and greater see-into musical view provided by the Extreme allowed other changes (mostly quite modest in cost if not descriptions) to make larger differences.

the heavy lifting came from the Extreme.

and Steve, with a fortune in cables and racks sitting there, the pennies you might invest for a better network to support your digital listening is a no-brainier.....if you upgrade your server and dac. and you already have the most expensive peripheral piece, a 5 figure USB.

 

[Number9]

I have and that's why I said IMO all that should be necessary is an USB cable. Perhaps you misunderstood my point

USB cable would be analogous to speaker cables from your amp to speakers.

 

[Steve Williams]

Mike you're comparing apples and oranges. It just seems all too extraneous for me

I could say the same for you as from what I've read the Select ll is Bit perfect and there is no way to make the sound better so why puhtz with it??

 

[Steve Williams]

USB cable would be analogous to speaker cables from your amp to speakers.

I get it. I get it

I have an excellent USB cable and have posted a thread about my experiences with it. For my ears that is all I would use

I have read about the MSB renderer but in order to get the best sound you now must add a giga foil, special cables and a better power supply. If it were me I would use the MSB USB Pro with my USB cable and call it a day. I bet I would be immensely satisfied

 

[spiritofmusic]

Steve, will an AF0 owner (current tt SOTA, as Extreme is to servers) have need of an lp cleaner? Not need by definition, but real desirability.

An Extreme will be fantastic just as it is. But that switch w LPS and before that, router w LPS, will feed the Extreme w the best organic signal. Just as the cleanest vinyl will enhance the AF0 experience.

 

[Steve Williams]

I get it. I get it

I have an excellent USB cable and have posted a thread about my experiences with it. For my ears that is all I would use

I have read about the MSB renderer but in order to get the best sound you now must add a giga foil, special cables and a better power supply. If it were me I would use the MSB USB Pro with my USB cable and call it a day. I bet I would be immensely satisfied

isn't all of this just different flavors of the same sound or am I to infer that it is exactly the same sound taken to a different level

 

[Steve Williams]

Steve, will an AF0 owner (current tt SOTA, as Extreme is to servers) have need of an lp cleaner? Not need by definition, but real desirability.

An Extreme will be fantastic just as it is. But that switch w LPS and before that, router w LPS, will feed the Extreme w the best organic signal. Just as the cleanest vinyl will enhance the AF0 experience.

again IMO you are comparing apples to oranges

I just feel that the shortest path between sources is always the best and I always have concern that the more components the signal travels through only gives opportunity for coloration of the sound but that is just my opinion

 

[spiritofmusic]

Steve, despite me arguing in favour, it's all of this that puts me right off streaming.

Streamer and dac. Poss LPSs to both. Renderer. LPS. Optical module to renderer. LPS. Router. LPS. Switch. LPS. Dual switch. LPS. Quad switch. LPS. Gigafoil filter. LPS?

I'm counting 16-18 boxes, plus dac, w all the attendant cabling and isolation needed.

Oh for the days of max 3 box cdt/dac/psu RBCD solution.

 

[Rhapsody]

isn't all of this just different flavors of the same sound or am I to infer that it is exactly the same sound taken to a different level

Steve, despite me arguing in favour, it's all of this that puts me right off streaming.

Streamer and dac. Poss LPSs to both. Renderer. LPS. Optical module to renderer. LPS. Router. LPS. Switch. LPS. Dual switch. LPS. Quad switch. LPS. Gigafoil filter. LPS?

I'm counting 16-18 boxes, plus dac, w all the attendant cabling and isolation needed.

Oh for the days of max 3 box cdt/dac/psu RBCD solution.

I have an Extreme, a Dac and one FO ethernet converter.....nothing more.

 

[Steve Williams]

Steve, despite me arguing in favour, it's all of this that puts me right off streaming.

Streamer and dac. Poss LPSs to both. Renderer. LPS. Optical module to renderer. LPS. Router. LPS. Switch. LPS. Dual switch. LPS. Quad switch. LPS. Gigafoil filter. LPS?

I'm counting 16-18 boxes, plus dac, w all the attendant cabling and isolation needed.

Oh for the days of max 3 box cdt/dac/psu RBCD solution.

Now we are on the same page

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Steve, despite me arguing in favour, it's all of this that puts me right off streaming.

Streamer and dac. Poss LPSs to both. Renderer. LPS. Optical module to renderer. LPS. Router. LPS. Switch. LPS. Dual switch. LPS. Quad switch. LPS. Gigafoil filter. LPS?

I'm counting 16-18 boxes, plus dac, w all the attendant cabling and isolation needed.

Oh for the days of max 3 box cdt/dac/psu RBCD solution.

Marc;

there are no extra boxes for streaming. none. nada. not any.

Roon just needs a place to be. could be on your laptop with your files. some dacs can have it. in theory it could be on your phone.

all this other stuff is in support of that. and you can do none of it or all of it, or anything in between. just because you have not taken the time to understand it, does not make it difficult.

but like anything, you might fear what you have not taken the time to understand.

 

[Taiko Audio]

I have an Extreme, a Dac and one FO ethernet converter.....nothing more.

This is indeed the proposed solution.

Counting in boxes, it is equivalent to the MSB Pro USB. It adds 1 box to convert copper to fiber. That’s really all there’s to it.

 

[Taiko Audio]

If it were me I would use the MSB USB Pro with my USB cable and call it a day. I bet I would be immensely satisfied

That seems to be the best performing option.