The pros and cons of manufacturer/dealer/designer participation

[howiebrou]

Interesting. For mine I have to turn it around to hold horizontal

Sorry I didn’t realize you had excluded a horizontal orientation from your comment. Mine is horizontal only too.

 

[christoph]

@PeterA. From what I read, I think the thread should be more " The Pros and Cons of Ejaculating on a Product."

And for our friends in the US of A there should be an Addendum saying: "Especially NOT if the piece of gear is powered on"

 

[christoph]

@PeterA
I know I am irritating our dearest moderators. Border line strike1.

How Long does it take again for a Strike to expire?

 

[spiritofmusic]

I knew this thread had to have a Happy Ending.

 

[DaveC]

Final Sale Only for Tang!

 

[advanced101]

I feel this is the one Forum where people speak their minds. I have gained valuable insight from numerous members. I have to take opinions with a grain of salt, since many of us like different things.

 

[Lagonda]

@PeterA. From what I read, I think the thread should be more " The Pros and Cons of Ejaculating on a Product."

Note1 : But PeterA is too civil and educated to use my kind of wording.
Note 2 : I know I am irritating our dearest moderators. Border line strike1.

I don’t know Tango, i have always considered ejakulation as something inherently positive
Except prematurely of course

 

[Steve Williams]

Article 13 of our TOS


13. If you work in any industry relevant to the topics discussed in our forum, you must show that clearly in your signature. While we encourage our industry insiders to use their real names (or parts thereof), aliases are allowed as user names.

so Duke you need to indicate your industry affiliation in your signature section

 

[bonzo75]

I don’t know Tango, i have always considered ejakulation as something inherently positive

Lol.

 

[Duke LeJeune]

Yes I would prefer that. Maybe not in blocks, but it gives the reader immediate and succinct information about your status rather than it happen at the end of the post and sometimes (not yours) be difficult to ascertain.

Hi Ian,

I have thought it over and proclaiming my industry affiliation at the beginning of every post just seems like in-your-face self-promotion to me. If I were to see another industry member doing this, I would wonder whether he was trying to spray-paint his advertising instead of paying for a banner ad. As you can see from Steve's post #48, posting my industry affiliation in my signature section puts me in compliance with the Terms of Service of this site. I understand your preference for immediate notice that you're reading the post of an industry member but all it takes is a glance down (and/or tipping your phone horizontal).

 

[Bruce B]

I've written a couple not so complimentary (is that the correct PC terminology these days?) reviews and have gotten raked over the coals. RIP to James Darby, but I never ever want to write up another review. Life is too short and I'm happily retired!!

The crap I went through with the HDTracks download fiasco took a few years from my lifespan!!

 

[spiritofmusic]

Let's hear from manufacturers and dealers who are open and busy on WBF. Be honest. Would you take against anyone who logged a review that was negative about yr product? Esp in relation to another, again who is active on WBF?

When I relayed my joy at discovering Stacore, I directly compared it to Minus K and Kuraka. Jarek of Stacore has gone on to be reasonably visible on WBF. Had the other two platforms had regular input here from their manufacturers, I know for a fact I wouldn't have felt free/comfortable in reporting them less positively. And that's despite me being religious in not unreasonably dissing said platforms, striving to be practical in listing pros and cons.

So, all you industry contacts on WBF, do you have any beef w us leaving negative feedback (as long as comments are respectful and non-slanderous)?

 

[the sound of Tao]

I knew this thread had to have a Happy Ending.

Audio definition: Happy ending - deciding that after many years we finally have the sound system exactly where we want it and that there’ll be absolutely no more changes or spending on new gear and that we’ll only just be buying more music from now on

I don’t know Tango, i have always considered ejakulation as something inherently positive
Except prematurely of course

Audio definition: Premature ejakulation - see definition of happy ending as above

 

[DaveC]

Let's hear from manufacturers and dealers who are open and busy on WBF. Be honest. Would you take against anyone who logged a review that was negative about yr product? Esp in relation to another, again who is active on WBF?

When I relayed my joy at discovering Stacore, I directly compared it to Minus K and Kuraka. Jarek of Stacore has gone on to be reasonably visible on WBF. Had the other two platforms had regular input here from their manufacturers, I know for a fact I wouldn't have felt free/comfortable in reporting them less positively. And that's despite me being religious in not unreasonably dissing said platforms, striving to be practical in listing pros and cons.

So, all you industry contacts on WBF, do you have any beef w us leaving negative feedback (as long as comments are respectful and non-slanderous)?

Mostly, there are a few issues though. I'd ask that certain protocols be adhered to, especially wrt cable burn-in. When half a review is describing the sound of burn-in, and the overall tone of the review is negative, then yes I'd have an issue with it. Especially if there are no other similar reviews at all, and other reviews that are mostly positive. So if you're having an experience with gear nobody else has, maybe it's not the gear. Or maybe it is...

The issue with the above is it's difficult for designers to defend their product without looking defensive and paranoid, it's very difficult to rebut any criticism. The other major issue is it's difficult to determine why the product didn't work, and it may have nothing to do with the product it's self. The issue I have is mainly that when clarity in a system is improved often times other faults are noticed. This is very often blamed on the new piece being demo'd when it truly has nothing to do with that at all.

Unfortunately, nobody has rock-solid logic and understanding of exactly what's doing what 100% of the time in an audio system, and people are biased. I think people need to be more honest with themselves if they're really hearing a change, expectation bias is a very real phenomenon I have tested. With experience I think you can recognize the line and understand if you're reaching for something that isn't there or hearing a real change. Maybe ask yourself if you could blind A/B something, if you hesitate here maybe the difference isn't as significant as you think or is imaginary.

So, this is basically why any professional reviewer won't do a negative review. To do it ethically, one would need to test across many systems with different test subjects who can't induce bias in one another by describing to each other what they are hearing, and it's simply easier to return the gear and say, "Sorry, I wasn't able to get this to work properly in my system". Some years ago I had a different opinion, but sending cables to hundreds of people to test has given me a slightly different perspective.

 

[DaveC]

Yeah I'm not really comfortable with the title of "Expert"... though I probably say enough outrageously stupid things to dispel the myth.

I think I have a solution, add "So-Called" before the title and put "Expert" in quotes...

 

[NorthStar]

This question's for you Peter ...

What do you think so far of the replies you have gotten in this thread...people's comments?
That includes everything; the serious replies, the philosophical ones, the humorous ones, the off tracks, ...the ensemble.

 

[BlueFox]

Audio definition: Happy ending - deciding that after many years we finally have the sound system exactly where we want it and that there’ll be absolutely no more changes or spending on new gear and that we’ll only just be buying more music from now on.

That is precisely where I am now.

 

[Elliot G.]

Can we also talk about the bizarre mistrust and bias people often have for members of "the industry"?

How we can be told we're liars when giving information to people trying our products, how whatever we say is taken only as an attempt to make a sale and how reviewers are all in on it? How folks jump to conclusions given insufficient data, how they completely ignore the ethical standards of reviewers in general, because they think the reviewers are all idiots and "in on it"?

I love what I do but people can often be abusive. I often feel abused and not treated as human. Luckily, I can decide who I deal with for the most part.

Being a member of anything does not necessarily qualify anyone as an expert. As a member of the Industry I have not selected the title put next to my name nor do I hide from anyone who I am or what I am involved in however In my opinion to give your opinions on products all members should not use avatars and made up names . IF you want an open exchange then everyone should use their real name and it should be verified by the owners of this website. Its way to easy to be a troll and hide behind some nom de plume!
I have said before and I will repeat it again in order to be a reviewer you need to be a critic. If you ca't tell the truth, can't tell the differences, can't express your findings and only regurgitate the specs or quotes from the literature then you are a reporter not a reviewer. There is far to much reporting with opinion than reviewing with expertise on the internet and in today's world.
Many may resent those who express findings and are willing to explainhow they find their comments but I can tell you that most manufacturers would be happy to hear them as long as they are done ethically and correctly. In order to improve one's products one needs to know what they might address.
Last point if one is to do this then PLEASE be thorough and make sure that what you are going to say is not your own error or lack of expertise and experience to understand what you are doing.
Audio is systematic and that includes the space used and the set up of such gear. If you don't know how to do this properly one should get the help required so that one can make educated findings based on proper informational findings. There is no shame in getting outside expertise since much of this is not what you do for a living.
I leave with a quote from Dirty Harry, " A man's got to know his limitations"
Happy Holidays

 

[DaveC]

Last point if one is to do this then PLEASE be thorough and make sure that what you are going to say is not your own error or lack of expertise and experience to understand what you are doing.

I totally agree, it's just the bolded part above that's difficult to be certain of. Pretty much all reviewers have decided they can't be sure in most cases, and the cost of being wrong can be very high for the manufacturer. As we've been playing with, the title "expert" for high end audio may be presumptuous for anyone to claim.

 

[marty]

If you can't tell the truth, can't tell the differences, can't express your findings and only regurgitate the specs or quotes from the literature then you are a reporter not a reviewer.

Well done Elliot.
I like well-reasoned opinions, observations and thinking because I learn from them. As a related aside, one of my frequent disappointments is looking at what people are playing or what concert they went to that is nothing more than a travelogue. It doesn't do me any good to look at album cover after album cover of someone's last spins or read the list of performers at their last concert. Tell me what you liked/disliked about it for goodness sake. Be a reviewer and teach me so I can expand my horizons and grow musically.