Hi Folsom,
Did you go to medical school over the weekend?
Right now if I had to make a policy decision on the basis of your advice and the advice of the medical doctors here who have responded to your post, I would tell the doctors to proceed.
I have no intention to stop posting yet. The misrepresentation of what I have been typing is not something I shrug at. Until everyone puts down their binary shields that define me as binary thinking on the subject, I must make things clear as to what I'm saying.
What would that advise be? If we follow the subjects it would be:
1.
Anti-vaxxers are batshit crazy. I'm saying I don't think they are totally crazy, despite their lack of education. This isn't a statement of them being right, at all. But binary thinking is making everyone believe I think autism is related to vaccines. No. I think that scared mothers have a leg to stand on because of anecdotal instances that in their mind proved it - but it's anecdotal so it isn't really relevant since it isn't causational in any provable way. To those that are trying to convince these mothers otherwise with piss & vinegar... GOOD LUCK.
2.
Measles have no value. I'm not surprised this is the thought because the information that made me reconsider I didn't know about until recently.
3.
That nutrition doesn't influences polio outcome. Really, that's hard to believe? So why did few people in developed worlds have concerning symptoms when Africa has had
loads? It's not that difficult. And by the numbers which I'm putting down below I think you'll see the point.
But I guess maybe I should be respecting everyone's right to be binary and just classify everything as crazy or not crazy. OK, but stop putting words in my mouth.
Here....in one post shows the dangers of the internet. One can find a crazy site full of misinformation to support ones own innate beliefs. Prenatal vitamins are just as effective as vaccines against Polio?
Hilarious wrong and frankly dangerous.
Wow. Just wow. I don’t know where to begin. Let’s start here. Measles, a highly contagious viral disease, is a major childhood killer in developing countries, accounting for almost 1 million deaths every year globally. Measles virus normally does not cause a persistent infection, no animal reservoir for measles virus exists, no vector is involved in its spread, only one serotype exists, the virus is antigenically stable and vaccination with the currently used live attenuated vaccines proved to be highly effective in preventing disease. Therefore, theoretically measles should be considered eradicable
Vaccinations have 2 major limitations. The first is that many, such as measles are only 95% effective in creating seroconversion. Since immunity in a population has to be over 95% to prevent endemic measles transmission, this may pose serious problems and hence there are efforts to develop more modern alternative vaccine formulations (i.e. DNA) The second problem is immunosenescence. Sometimes an aging immune system requires booster immunizations to maintain immunity. (The good news for you is that you may get your wish to contract the disease if you live long enough!)
As far as the implications you have made about autism, reduction of heart disease risk due to epigenetics following measles infection and pre-natal vitamins and polio being more effective than a vaccine to prevent the disease, all I can say is that I’d welcome any credible data on these to support your statements. I don’t know what medical school you attended but those teachings seemed to escape me in mine. I didn’t respond to your post immediately because I wanted to research the literature however, I regret to say I didn’t find anything compelling after searching PubMed for a few hours. If you have any data to the contrary, I’d welcome learning about it.
Hey Marty,
First thank you so much for actually giving any effort at all to see if what I have been saying has any validity. That means a lot because to me it shows you're being a respectful adult towards me. When I hear things that I think are crazy I do searches for them as well, and that's why sometimes I'm surprised that things are more gray than I had thought. Also, I'm not at all under the belief that whomever does not believe something now gets some sort of special treatment as a moral obligation for the other person to do homework for them - excluding situations that are meant to be based on it like actual research papers, selling a product, or trying to introduce policy. And frankly I like to look at sources anyways.
Now that I think about it I can see why it's best to retract me desire for vaccine of measles (and mumps I guess, too, I forgot that) to be universally stopped. It's a great point that in developing countries the good outweighs the bad. But I still think in the first world nations they look to be a hindrance.
Since you've been courteous to me I'll follow the favor. I'm sorry to say though that certain things I am struggling to find right now because it appears Google is surpressing anti-vaxxer stuff and thereby association of anything they use as "ammo".
Here is an arching article. I was able to find a link for one of the references the other two don't pop up immediately.
[1] (even these were hard to locate right now) I'm aware that the study isn't extensively conclusive since it is observational. But what I wanted to find was some very interesting information about how some co-evolution with viruses may be more integral to who we are, as they can be a vector for certain information that is valuable to humans (and maybe required in some circumstances). That information is what gave relevance to why I think the observation study may be actually very valuable. It's very interesting, I think you'd like it. To say anything else on the subject is to get into discussion about things like MTHFR and well too much other stuff why I am perfectly willing to voluntarily contract measles and think it's worth being objectionable to the vaccines (1st world).
The subject of polio vaccine is
interesting. In some countries they've been taking liberties with them bypassing testing and such. So there have been some cases on infection via
administration of vaccines. And the ways it has been enforced is interesting as well. But overall it's been very effective. Now let's get to actual numbers that are more interesting. Here's an excerpt from a
lot of information I believe everyone here will find rather sobering. Note that the onset of the vaccine spiked deaths the highest in the US.
Here's one study about why malnutrition is considered high risk concern for polio symptoms (immune deficiency being the other biggest risk factor).
Permanent paralysis fortunately occurs in only 0.5% of infections. The majority of infections (72%) do not lead to any symptoms. About a quarter of cases (24%) result in “abortive” poliomyelitis which leads to nonspecific symptoms for a few days, such as a fever or a cold, and 1-5% of cases lead to “non-paralytic aseptic meningitis”, in which the patient suffers from stiff limbs for up to 10 days.
1
From Wikipedia:
Outcomes of poliovirus infection
Outcome Proportion of cases[1]
No symptoms 72%
Minor illness 24%
Nonparalytic aseptic meningitis 1–5%
Paralytic poliomyelitis 0.1–0.5%
— Spinal polio 79% of paralytic cases
— Bulbospinal polio 19% of paralytic cases
— Bulbar polio 2% of paralytic cases
Given the actually very rare cases of actual problems that are worse than a common season ailment, and the amount of vaccine onset polio & vaccine polio resulted deaths... Yes I actually think it's fair to say that nutrition is more important now in developed countries. I would say that for undeveloped countries except that's not an expectation that could be filled - but I'd like to see an expectation for more responsible vaccine deployment to them.
As to why anyone would be opposed to a vaccine against covid-19 is beyond me
I suppose this is a jab at me. Again a wholly misrepresentation of what I have said. At no point did I proclaim opposition to making a vaccine. What I said was if you've already had it and it's proven that you can't recontract, then there's no reason for a vaccine for those who had been infected - and that I especially don't want to be poked if I've had the virus already. And that was in reference to the importance of antibody testing so we'll have real data on what's happening. So, in no way whatsoever did I say I have an opposition to a vaccine for covid 19 being made or used.
And I'll bring up you brought up the vaccine discussions. And then you and others turned me into an anti-vaxxer because I said I don't think they're totally crazy. But still I must thank you for letting me at least discuss the subject despite your opinion that they are completely batshit-crazy (and however that also means I am now one of them
). That is rare to be open to discussion - something to be prized IMO.
