If you were to be a dealer, what lines would you like to carry and why?

[cjfrbw]

If I had to play girl with guitar music all day to demo, it wouldn't matter what brands I carried or how much I sold, i would soon go mad.

 

[bonzo75]

If I had to play girl with guitar music all day to demo, it wouldn't matter what brands I carried or how much I sold, i would soon go mad.

That's precisely my point why you have to be involved with it professionally and not emotionally. You need it to treat it like work, not your own listening session. If you occasionally get a good session, that is a bonus. Tap your foot, nod your head, tell the guy he is a good listener so why did he end up with that other thing you are not selling?

 

[andromedaaudio]

To be honest .
If i was a dealer and i had to listen 2 or 3 weeks to all that audiophile cable talk .
I would close up shop and be done with it , ....lol

 

[asiufy]

This part upsets me most with "sales" in general. IMHO if you are selling a product then you should know it inside and out. Like going to buy a car. Me: "What is the horsepower of the engine?" Sales: "I don't really know. Have to check." Me: "Does is come with apple play?" Sales: "I don't really know. What is apple play?" Me: "What colors are available?" Sales: " Well you can see we have this white one here." (Not what I asked.)

As an example in HIFI. There is a local brick & Mortar that has been in the same location since the late 80's. They sell the big brands -- Wilson, Audio Research, DCS, etc. I occasionally go in to see if anything new I might be interested in. The sales people are not engaging at all. They have no idea really about audio in general. One of the stock questions they often ask is "What is your system?" They have not heard of any of the gear that I have. And they don't know any technical details regarding the gear they do sell. These people might as well be selling jewelry or cars or whatever.

If I walked into Alma and asked about DAC's then I would expect questions on what my current system is and what it is I am looking for in a DAC's sound. What I don't like about my current DAC. And then shown a couple of DAC's that are likely to work well. And when I ask a lot of detailed questions about a $120K DAC (select II) you better know every single one of them.

Perfect. That's somewhat our approach indeed. And, as it has happened, at the end of our conversation about DACs, I might just say that we don't have a product that fits your requirements and/or taste, and that perhaps you should investigate brand X, Y, Z, that we don't carry, if that turned out to be the case.

That's when the used products come in handy, and why we like to do trades/consignment.

And all of our systems absolutely *must* play everything. I have a particularly wide taste in music, but with very little intersection with the usual audiophile stuff. For instance, I never even knew who Nils Lofgren was before I became familiar with the hobby. So, if it doesn't play my quirky stuff to my satisfaction, it doesn't suit me, and likely won't suit my clients.

If all dealers adopted bonzo's distant, box-pushing model, we can all be sure there won't be a hobby in the very near future, and we'd all be listening to crappy YouTube videos, buying 500kg speakers through the mail with 30-day return policies, time in which you can barely break them in, let alone learn how to position them in your room.

 

[PeterA]

To be honest .
If i was a dealer and i had to listen 2 or 3 weeks to all that audiophile cable talk .
I would close up shop and be done with it , ....lol

If I were a dealer, I would not sell fancy audiophile cables. I would use the capital on other things. I might also encourage clients to come in with their wives, friends and a bottle of wine after work to listen to systems with their own music. I would answer questions but I am not sure I would volunteer much information unsolicited.

The philosophy would be to introduce people to great sound and try to expand interest in the hobby. I would not take the approach of a used car salesman.

EDIT: I would probably also not sell acoustic treatments, opting instead to have natural decor rooms like one would have at home with windows and not looking like man-caves. The idea being to introduce the music in normal settings to encourage accessibility and livability. I would want the whole experience to be as normal as possible and for visitors to simply be blown away by the quality of the experience. And audition would have to be something they could relate to and be extremely comfortable with.

 

[tima]

Of course none of this is thought through and could be naive...

In addition to a store unit, I'd have a demo unit for each popular mid-tier component (including cables and power cords) to make it simple for customers to take gear home for a week-long audition. "Can't make up your mind between those two preamps? Here. take 'em both home and compare."

Buy a complete system from me and we'll not only bring it to your house and set it up, we'll come back in three or four months and make sure you're still happy. For those wanting a turn-key approach, I'd consider offering an appliance type service contract - six-month or annual tune-up and maintenance to assure your system is in running in tip-top shape.

 

[Ron Resnick]

If I were a dealer, I would not sell fancy audiophile cables. I would use the capital on other things. I might also encourage clients to come in with their wives, friends and a bottle of wine after work to listen to systems with their own music. I would answer questions but I am not sure I would volunteer much information unsolicited.

The philosophy would be to introduce people to great sound and try to expand interest in the hobby. I would not take the approach of a used car salesman.

EDIT: I would probably also not sell acoustic treatments, opting instead to have natural decor rooms like one would have at home with windows and not looking like man-caves. The idea being to introduce the music in normal settings to encourage accessibility and livability. I would want the whole experience to be as normal as possible and for visitors to simply be blown away by the quality of the experience. And audition would have to be something they could relate to and be extremely comfortable with.

This all sounds great, and, as someone who hopes our hobby endures, I am all for this approach.

But promoting the longevity of the hobby by providing people with the opportunty to fall in love with the hobby naturally by no pressure exposure and passive osmosis may not be consistent with making a living from sales.

 

[KeithR]

If I were a dealer, I would not sell fancy audiophile cables. I would use the capital on other things. I might also encourage clients to come in with their wives, friends and a bottle of wine after work to listen to systems with their own music. I would answer questions but I am not sure I would volunteer much information unsolicited.

The philosophy would be to introduce people to great sound and try to expand interest in the hobby. I would not take the approach of a used car salesman.

EDIT: I would probably also not sell acoustic treatments, opting instead to have natural decor rooms like one would have at home with windows and not looking like man-caves. The idea being to introduce the music in normal settings to encourage accessibility and livability. I would want the whole experience to be as normal as possible and for visitors to simply be blown away by the quality of the experience. And audition would have to be something they could relate to and be extremely comfortable with.

No offense Peter, but I think you would be treating it as a hobby not as a business and would likely not make it.

I visit multiple LA dealerships frequently and, trust me, almost without exception they aren't used car salesman nor try and sell spools of Monster cable Between Common Wave, Alma, Audio Element, Shelley's, etc. there are some awesome dealers out here.

The irony is almost all of your gear didn't come from brick and mortar dealers. Of course, there is nothing wrong with that.

 

[microstrip]

If I were a dealer, I would not sell fancy audiophile cables. (...)

Peter,

The top quality audio cables are part of the high-end. Dealers are supposed to help consumers to create great sounding systems and cables are part of it. BTW, I feel any audio cable costing more than usd 50 is fancy. And still I have a lot of fancy and non fancy cables ...

We should also remember that dealership is usually a professional activity. Dealers should look to please their customer preferences and also win money - it is the essence of trade. Dealers have expenses and a rent to pay and the cables margin are part of the equation. BTW, wives, friends and bottle of wine are perhaps great for home theater, but IMHO dissonant with the high-end stereo. A stereo shop can't be the Allo-Allo café ...

Can I suggest you the very interesting Keith Yates article on his sad high-end dealer experience of the 80's? https://keithyates.com/652/

"Most audiophiles, I was to learn, don’t “do” concerts. It’s part of the religion, but not part of the life." I found this sentence describing this separation extremely enlightening, even extending over the concerts.

 

[PeterA]

Peter,

The top quality audio cables are part of the high-end. Dealers are supposed to help consumers to create great sounding systems and cables are part of it. BTW, I feel any audio cable costing more than usd 50 is fancy. And still I have a lot of fancy and non fancy cables ...

We should also remember that dealership is usually a professional activity. Dealers should look to please their customer preferences and also win money - it is the essence of trade. Dealers have expenses and a rent to pay and the cables margin are part of the equation. BTW, wives, friends and bottle of wine are perhaps great for home theater, but IMHO dissonant with the high-end stereo. A stereo shop can't be the Allo-Allo café ...

Can I suggest you the very interesting Keith Yates article on his sad high-end dealer experience of the 80's? https://keithyates.com/652/

"Most audiophiles, I was to learn, don’t “do” concerts. It’s part of the religion, but not part of the life." I found this sentence describing this separation extremely enlightening, even extending over the concerts.

Fransisco, I was answering the title of the thread and sharing my ideas about how I would run a dealership. I have not answered what brands I would carry yet, but I wrote that I was not interested in carrying audiophile cables, or acoustic treatments.

You can criticize my point of view all you want, it doesn't matter to me. You would have a different kind of dealership than I would. That is fine. The reality is that neither of us owns a dealership, but you seem to have a much larger collection of gear than I do. That is fine too.

Kedar, too, would have a very different business than I would. That is what makes this a fun thread.

Stay well.

 

[tima]

If I were a dealer, I would not sell fancy audiophile cables.

The top quality audio cables are part of the high-end. Dealers are supposed to help consumers to create great sounding systems and cables are part of it....

I wrote that I was not interested in carrying audiophile cables, or acoustic treatments.

As the PeterA dealership, of course you get to choose whatever gear you want.

Might I suggest - and I thought this when I first read your post #85 - that to some people, adding the adjective "fancy" can be as much a commentary about the general merit of 'audiophile cables' or 'expensive audiophile cables' as it was about your inventory. I venture that many (most?) audiophiles use, or are at least curious about, audiophile cables, even expensive ones.

Stating that you will not carry audiophile cables can be done without the word 'fancy'' and the fact that you explicitly singled out cables (and acoustics) as something your dealship will not sell is somewhat a point that stands out, that you wanted to draw attention to it. Whether your use was intentional or stream of conscious, I have no idea. All this as an observation, not a criticism.

Here on WBF, my sense is prepending "fancy" to a description is intended as, or comes across to some as, a derogative, mild though it may be. Of course that could just be me reading more into something than what it is - but that's my sense. Some perecentage of reading and understanding posts here is "reading between the lines" or cues to deeper/better understanding to an author's intent. Of course in doing so it's easy to be wrong (or right) about a message , but I speculate we all do it to some degree.

 

[bonzo75]

I think the question is what would you do as a dealer, not what OCD you have as an audiophile. So I get Marc wants to carry Zus, and Peter wants to do what he is currently doing in the sublime sound thread, but this is a different question. To clarify the point with an example, Davey cannot open a dealership that tells all clients to sell their speakers to buy alsyvox..

 

[PeterA]

As the PeterA dealership, of course you get to choose whatever gear you want.

Might I suggest - and I thought this when I first read your post #85 - that to some people, adding the adjective "fancy" can be as much a commentary about the general merit of 'audiophile cables' or 'expensive audiophile cables' as it was about your inventory. I venture that many (most?) audiophiles use, or are at least curious about, audiophile cables, even expensive ones.

Stating that you will not carry audiophile cables can be done without the word 'fancy'' and the fact that you explicitly singled out cables (and acoustics) as something your dealship will not sell is somewhat a point that stands out, that you wanted to draw attention to it. Whether your use was intentional or stream of conscious, I have no idea. All this as an observation, not a criticism.

Here on WBF, my sense is prepending "fancy" to a description is intended as, or comes across to some as, a derogative, mild though it may be. Of course that could just be me reading more into something than what it is - but that's my sense. Some perecentage of reading and understanding posts here is "reading between the lines" or cues to deeper/better understanding to an author's intent. Of course in doing so it's easy to be wrong (or right) about a message , but I speculate we all do it to some degree.

Your point is well taken Tima. I am supposing that to some non audiophiles whom I would want to introduce to the hobby through my fictitious dealership, the terms "expensive" and "audiophile" may also be derogatives. I actually omitted "fancy" and called them "audiophile" cables in post #90, the post just before your response. To me, the term "fancy" is equivalent to the term "audiophile" when referring to cables in high end dealerships. They come with great marketing campaigns, elaborate boxes, shiny connections, and high prices. Yes, some sound great. I could just as easily call them "expensive" cables. Please just replace the word "fancy" with "audiophile" or "expensive" in my posts. To me, the meanings are interchangable.

I guess I have not been clear enough about what my intentions would be if I were to own an audio dealership. The main problem I see with the state of affairs is that the industry is having a hard time attracting new people to the hobby. Read the comment sections of any expensive product review from TAS or Stereophile on line. Many responses are about the absurd cost of the gear. Combine this with the general notion that many audiophiles, and non audiophiles alike, simply don't understand about expensive audiophile cables. In fact, the mere mention of these products often turns people off. Even on WBF, audiophiles roundly criticize cables for being overpriced, having outrageous marketing claims, dubious technology, etc. etc. I simply would not want to get into any of that with people I would be trying to attract to the hobby.

My dealership goal would be to try to attract new people to the hobby. I would want to create a sense of discovery of the possibilities of good sound, much like when I have people over for a dinner party at my house, and they hear my system for the first time during cocktails. After dinner, they want to go and listen. They usually just sit there in silence. I don't tell them about my fancy cartridges, old or new tonearms, why I have Class A SS monoblocks instead of tubes, or anything about my sealed speaker cabinets. I play music for them. If I had digital, I would let them play the music for themselves.

I understand that expensive audiophile cables provide a huge mark up and profit center for brick and mortar shops. That's great, and other dealers can partly rely on that for their viability. I'm just saying that I would choose to use that capital elsewhere in the systems I demonstrate while trying to expand the hobby. Super expensive gear, of all types, is great, and it sometimes sounds wonderful, but my focus would be more on value, system set up, and enjoying the music, not the stuff about which we are sometimes so passionate in these threads.

Others will surely have a different approach, and likely make more money. I would want a place that people feel comfortable visiting and not be told they have to spend lots of money on cables to make a system sound good. This thread comes at a time when I think people will be reassessing priorities. Sure, my views are reflective of what I personally value in my own system and what I am learning about the hobby right now.

It sounds like Bonzo's dealership, to pick one such example, would not reflect the direction he personally follows. He seems to see it more as a money making venture. I understand full well the differences between these approaches, and that is fine.

I guess that I am not answering the question posed in the title of this thread. Sorry if this is off topic. This is just idyl speculation, anyway.

 

[microstrip]

(...) To me, the term "fancy" is equivalent to the term "audiophile" when referring to cables in high end dealerships. They come with great marketing campaigns, elaborate boxes, shiny connections, and high prices. Yes, some sound great. I could just as easily call them "expensive" cables. Please just replace the word "fancy" with "audiophile" or "expensive" in my posts. To me, the meanings are interchangable (...) .

Would you also ban expensive cartridges from your shop? They share the same characteristics as "fancy" cables ...

 

[spiritofmusic]

There's a one-man band dealer who sells/sold a lovely system when I visited several yrs back. He proceeded to spend the first 15 mins of my time w him berating cables, people selling cables, and customers wanting to buy cables, expensive or otherwise. My first thought wasn't how good his system was gonna be. It was why is this person insulting customers, shortchanging himself, and potentially losing sales...not of cables, but for his gear as a result of putting people off...he certainly wasn't endearing himself to me, putting dogma over inclusiveness.

 

[ack]

Your point is well taken Tima. I am supposing that to some non audiophiles whom I would want to introduce to the hobby through my fictitious dealership, the terms "expensive" and "audiophile" may also be derogatives. I actually omitted "fancy" and called them "audiophile" cables in post #90, the post just before your response. To me, the term "fancy" is equivalent to the term "audiophile" when referring to cables in high end dealerships. They come with great marketing campaigns, elaborate boxes, shiny connections, and high prices. Yes, some sound great. I could just as easily call them "expensive" cables. Please just replace the word "fancy" with "audiophile" or "expensive" in my posts. To me, the meanings are interchangable.

I guess I have not been clear enough about what my intentions would be if I were to own an audio dealership. The main problem I see with the state of affairs is that the industry is having a hard time attracting new people to the hobby. Read the comment sections of any expensive product review from TAS or Stereophile on line. Many responses are about the absurd cost of the gear. Combine this with the general notion that many audiophiles, and non audiophiles alike, simply don't understand about expensive audiophile cables. In fact, the mere mention of these products often turns people off. Even on WBF, audiophiles roundly criticize cables for being overpriced, having outrageous marketing claims, dubious technology, etc. etc. I simply would not want to get into any of that with people I would be trying to attract to the hobby.

My dealership goal would be to try to attract new people to the hobby. I would want to create a sense of discovery of the possibilities of good sound, much like when I have people over for a dinner party at my house, and they hear my system for the first time during cocktails. After dinner, they want to go and listen. They usually just sit there in silence. I don't tell them about my fancy cartridges, old or new tonearms, why I have Class A SS monoblocks instead of tubes, or anything about my sealed speaker cabinets. I play music for them. If I had digital, I would let them play the music for themselves.

I understand that expensive audiophile cables provide a huge mark up and profit center for brick and mortar shops. That's great, and other dealers can partly rely on that for their viability. I'm just saying that I would choose to use that capital elsewhere in the systems I demonstrate while trying to expand the hobby. Super expensive gear, of all types, is great, and it sometimes sounds wonderful, but my focus would be more on value, system set up, and enjoying the music, not the stuff about which we are sometimes so passionate in these threads.

Others will surely have a different approach, and likely make more money. I would want a place that people feel comfortable visiting and not be told they have to spend lots of money on cables to make a system sound good. This thread comes at a time when I think people will be reassessing priorities. Sure, my views are reflective of what I personally value in my own system and what I am learning about the hobby right now.

It sounds like Bonzo's dealership, to pick one such example, would not reflect the direction he personally follows. He seems to see it more as a money making venture. I understand full well the differences between these approaches, and that is fine.

I guess that I am not answering the question posed in the title of this thread. Sorry if this is off topic. This is just idyl speculation, anyway.

I am 100% with you on this subject, about overall dealer approach specifically and cables as well. I would not, in good conscience, be able to talk anyone into spending tons of money on cables, not that they don't matter in a high-end system - I just don't see their value, compared to everything else in a high end system.

Your suggested approach is how I was treated many decades ago by a long-gone shop here in Arlington, MA. It was a great experience. Perhaps a subject for another thread, but I often get to wander: what makes a great dealer...

 

[Kingsrule]

Audio Visions was a great store....

 

[Solypsa]

Ked defined a great dealer financially. Others perhaps a great dealer in service to the hobby. It is about definition of good/great...

 

[PeterA]

The thread asks members what they would do. As always, the responses tells us about the member.

 

[bonzo75]

The thread asks members what they would do. As always, the responses tells us about the member.

Yes I saw some members pretend to be idealistic hobbyists when asked to comment on means of livelihood