Magico A5s arrive at Rhapsody....color me confused;)

[Rhapsody]

It is lovely this forum always has check and balance. I appreciate people who reviews a product and give out both strengths and weaknesses. Or at least tell us what kind of things they play great at or what kind of things another brand plays better. And let us use those info productively.

My close friend is a dealer of Magico in Thailand. I get to hear as many models as I wish. I don't hate Magico. I regret I sold Mini II long time ago. Those damn heavy little speakers are work of art. I agree with Bob about Magico playing drum so captivating exciting. I will go so far as to say I have never heard a drum play from any speakers sound more intriguing than from Magico..with or without subs. You don't even need new A5 to sound great on drum...an older model of Magico is capable too. But overall Magico is not the type of sound I want to hear every day.

Tang,

I was thinking about it last night and you really have to look at your perspective on almost any speaker that you might enjoy vs your reference. Look where you are coming from at the moment. You have a world class large scale horn system with bass horns, world class Lamm ML3s and a $450K TT etc. It's an EL PRIMO system for sure.

It's like asking a Formula 1 driver if they would rather drive their F1 or a BMW on the track.

I would say that I have three large scale type systems and I listen to each of them and don't think of the other speakers or compare while listening and I truly enjoy them all and get sucked into the music with them all. When I put on the A5's I feel about the same way that I do when playing my large scale systems. I don't think about the other speakers I just enjoy the music. Right now, because the A5s are new I am noting the items that stand out to me, in my room, with my set up.

Regarding break in of Magicos, they take hundreds of hours to settle in, BUT imho it has a lot to do with what is being fed into any speaker. I do believe that for digital and only for me I have found Nirvana between my optimized network and the Extreme server. I don't even care what Dac I use. Any speaker that I connect with streaming sounds quite good to me for streaming at this point.

I am also DEFINITELY not saying the A5's or any Magico speaker are so good that they are for everyone. I am saying for people that like the Magico sound the A5s are really special imho. Nothing more than that.

 

[PeterA]

Bob, what do you mean by the “Magico” sound? How would you describe it?

 

[Rhapsody]

Bob, what do you mean by the “Magico” sound? How would you describe it?

Morning Peter, It's an interesting question Hard to summarize actually. I think different people would answer it differently of course. My take on the Magico sound is first what it is not in my world.

I have horn/open baffle, full range ribbon and then omni directional speakers. They all have their own unique way in presenting the soundstage and instruments and voices on the layered soundstage. Up until now I really felt as thought the Magico sound had a very good open soundstage it was not to the extent of non-cabinet speakers.

I think of bass when I think of Magico and I used to think of it as quick fast, hit the notes with not as many low harmonics as you might get with non-sealed cabinet bass performance. I used to think of Magico bass as less full bodied sounding compared to ported speakers.

With the A5's specifically I fell they have that fullness in the bottom end that I get from other speaker designs although it the bass notes are still fast and clear.

The soundstage I am getting with the a5's does not have quite the scale of my other larger non cabinet speakers but all of those speakers are more like M6s at least, it has to with the physical height of the speakers. BUT right now I can honestly say that the soundstage, openness, width depth and no cabinet sense that I get from the planers/horns/omi is the same with the A5s.

When you get into tonality/timbre etc I believe it has a lot to do with what you are driving any speaker with. If naturalness, liquidity are your priorities I believe tubes are great. If you want blinding dynamics, speed, micro detail resolution I feel SS has come a long way.

Right now I can't really differentiate the Magico sound if use the A5 from really any of the other types of speakers that I currently have on hand. They all produce this crazy layered, holographic soundstage with great transparency and resolution and are fairly neutral. I can tune any of them with electronics (tubes vs SS), cables, vibration control to ones liking.

In the past I have described Magico sound as very clear, high res, world class bass. I used to compare it with Raidho and say Raidho was more etherial sounding.

I don't feel like I've really answered your question, but I have not had my coffee yet

Edit- I can say that in the past if I had the Counterpoints, Roma Triode or Botticellis set up, I would never move them until I had to. I would listen to them and enjoyed them until the next demo happened where I had to move them. If on the other hand I had a speaker, actually Magico, Raidho, Kaiser and some others set up for a demo, not that they didn't sound very good, it was just that when the demo was over I would move them and set up either the Diesis Roma Triode, Counterpoint or Botticelli into place until my next demo. I liked listening to one of these three more than other speakers. Just my personal preference.

I can tell now that when the A5 is set up I will never move it for something else to listen to for my personal listening. I am as content listing to it as I am any other speaker in my studio.

 

[PeterA]

Thank you Bob. I think that is a pretty tough question. I am curious because you have referred to the "Magico sound" a few times in this thread when suggesting that if one likes the "Magico sound", he will like the A5. This suggests that you think there is such a sound and hence my interest in how you and other people might describe it.

It is clear that some people simply don't like Magico speakers, and they too must be referencing a particular "sound" when making such comments.

I have heard many different Magico speakers in many different system contexts and rooms. They have sounded sufficiently different to me, that I find it challenging to identify a brand signature. The degree of dynamics and tonal colorations seem to me to be more dependent on the amplifiers driving them or even the cables than on anything inherent to the brand.

The specific lines do have some traits in common, and this seems mostly based on the construction of that line to meet a certain price point or value proposition, or some idea of "voicing" to please a particular type of customer. Pass Labs seems to have a similar approach with their various amplifier lines, the X and the XA, and then their .5 and .8.

The few attributes I have heard consistently from all of the Magico speakers I've heard, except for the V3, is incredible driver integration, very low cabinet coloration, and timbrally accurate low frequencies. This then leads toward transparency to the upstream components. In that sense, I would describe the brand as chameleon-like: very responsive to system and room context and to set up with very little coloration or character of its own.

For instance, I have heard Magico speakers with the clarity and speed of some panel speakers, the dynamics of some horn speakers, and the coherence of single driver speakers. I have also heard them disappear as some omi-directional speakers do. This is why I find it quite difficult to describe a "Magico Sound."

Finally, the brand does tend to be inefficient and somewhat difficult to drive. This requirement for robust amplification combined with the brick and mortar dealership model might well lead to the favoring of certain types of speaker/amp pairings which may also be very responsible for a type of "house sound" in so much as people generalize about "solid state" and "tube" sound which is then reflected in the listening experience because the speakers are to my ears so transparent to amplification. One is probably less likely to get certain attributes that one associates with SET amplifiers from a Magico system because the speakers can not be driven by such amplifiers.

I admit my experience with a broad range of alternative typologies or even with typical cone/dome drivers and enclosed cabinets is much more limited than to what other audiophiles may have been exposed over time.

Anyway, those are some musings about how I might describe the brand sound, or lack of it.

 

[Rhapsody]

My ears are wonderful and I have exceptional skill in using video recordings screening out uninteresting product . I even listen the videos from my Samsung mobile phone. I heard these A5 video in two different systems one with Boulder and one with Naim both played very expensive digital. Both systems sound uninteresting.

Hi Tang, I went and looked at all the A5 YT videos. There are five of them. There were a 162 thumbs up and 1 thumbs down amongst all five videos. So although not to your preference it seems that in general most people liked and appreciated the A5 videos.

Again, not saying that people should like the A5's, it's just if they are of any interest to anyone they should give them a listen to. Nothing more than that.

 

[PeterA]

The soundstage I am getting with the a5's does not have quite the scale of my other larger non cabinet speakers but all of those speakers are more like M6s at least, it has to with the physical height of the speakers. BUT right now I can honestly say that the soundstage, openness, width depth and no cabinet sense that I get from the planers/horns/omi is the same with the A5s.

Bob, this comment is fascinating to me. The A-series cabinets are clearly heroic in terms of internal bracing and structure, but they are much less sophisticated in terms of shape than are the newer curved carbon fiber skinned enclosures of the M series or even the curved sidewalls and top plates of the S mk 2 series.

Much of the "no cabinet sense" I also hear I had always thought was a direct result of the curved cabinets and substantial curved and quite narrow front baffles of my Q3 for instance. This was a major discussion point with the new M6. This would seem to be quite an achievement from the basic square box shaped cabinet of the A-series.

 

[Rhapsody]

Bob, this comment is fascinating to me. The A-series cabinets are clearly heroic in terms of internal bracing and structure, but they are much less sophisticated in terms of shape than are the newer curved carbon fiber skinned enclosures of the M series or even the curved sidewalls and top plates of the S mk 2 series.

Much of the "no cabinet sense" I also hear I had always thought was a direct result of the curved cabinets and substantial curved and quite narrow front baffles of my Q3 for instance. This was a major discussion point with the new M6. This would seem to be quite an achievement from the basic square box shaped cabinet of the A-series.

All I can say is I am stunned. I can't wait until others people come and hear what I am hearing and voice their opinions. Maybe it's just me and they hit a magic chord for my sonic priorities. Get in your car and drive down here please

I do believe at this point I have reached a very high level with my streaming and I feel that is contributing to the sound that I am experiencing, but the A5s are the ones that are "moving the air" in the room.

 

[Lagonda]

My ears are wonderful and I have exceptional skill in using video recordings screening out uninteresting product . I even listen the videos from my Samsung mobile phone. I heard these A5 video in two different systems one with Boulder and one with Naim both played very expensive digital. Both systems sound uninteresting.

That’s just the digital part Tang, you are spoiled

 

[Rhapsody]

That’s just the digital part Tang, you are spoiled

I agree, if I was Tang with his system and vinyl set up I would find the YT videos uninteresting probably as well.

 

[Alrainbow]

Any word on a new M3? It has consistently left me unmoved, and I had high expectations.

Funny how i find this model the best of the Magico’s i have heard , they need power to open up

 

[Rhapsody]

The midrange clarity of the A5s is uncanny to this listener. In room a piano has never sounded more clear and present. The speed and articulation in the midrange is just a glimpse in the A5 of what's coming in the M9 and future Magico offerings.....color me delighted.

 

[Rhapsody]

One more for the road- A5's.

 

[Rhapsody]

Mcduman (from the YG thread) wrote-

"can you also comment on the depth and width of the stage? i am asking because i find them to be lacking in that department. and also because this is not the right thread."

Mcduman, where have you heard the A5's and with what driving them?

The width of the soundstage in my room is about 20' wide. The width of the room is 18' wide but if you close your eyes or even with them open the width of the soundstage goes beyond each sidewall.

I have the A5's about 10' out into the room. I get about 15' of depth beyond the back wall behind the speakers, so the overall depth is about 25' including the 10' of in room actual physical space.

With recordings that have a lot of depth I feel that I have a 20' W X 25' deep soundstage, but on many recordings there is nothing beyond that back wall and most instruments and voice are between the speakers and back wall, but the soundstage usually extends 18' X 20' wide.

Of course it is all recording dependent. On classical which usually has the most depth on certain recordings to me, I hear tiny instruments (percussion, flutes etc) and natural harmonics about 15' beyond the back wall. There can also be instruments close to the speakers that are 10's into the room.

The layering of instruments of one instrument directly behind another instrument with both being perfectly clear and transparent and the space between them reveals transparency and clarity that I have not experienced prior. MANY speakers do this of course, it is the extent of this transparency and clarity that has me gobsmacked.

 

[bonzo75]

Funny how i find this model the best of the Magico’s i have heard , they need power to open up

M3? At audioquattr I heard with dagostino and Alieno, he them moved to Cessaro, and byrdparis moved from M3 to horns universum.

 

[HenryD]

Mcduman (from the YG thread) wrote-

"can you also comment on the depth and width of the stage? i am asking because i find them to be lacking in that department. and also because this is not the right thread."

Mcduman, where have you heard the A5's and with what driving them?

The width of the soundstage in my room is about 20' wide. The width of the room is 18' wide but if you close your eyes or even with them open the width of the soundstage goes beyond each sidewall.

I have the A5's about 10' out into the room. I get about 15' of depth beyond the back wall behind the speakers, so the overall depth is about 25' including the 10' of in room actual physical space.

With recordings that have a lot of depth I feel that I have a 20' W X 25' deep soundstage, but on many recordings there is nothing beyond that back wall and most instruments and voice are between the speakers and back wall, but the soundstage usually extends 18' X 20' wide.

Of course it is all recording dependent. On classical which usually has the most depth on certain recordings to me, I hear tiny instruments (percussion, flutes etc) and natural harmonics about 15' beyond the back wall. There can also be instruments close to the speakers that are 10's into the room.

The layering of instruments of one instrument directly behind another instrument with both being perfectly clear and transparent and the space between them reveals transparency and clarity that I have not experienced prior. MANY speakers do this of course, it is the extent of this transparency and clarity that has me gobsmacked.

I would say that the expensive 3D size of the soundstage were the first thing I notice when listening to the A5. I kept looking back, thinking something was being me, it is spooky. It is most likely due to the new 5" midrange. To my ears, it is superb.

 

[DRIVETECH]

I would say that the expensive 3D size of the soundstage were the first thing I notice when listening to the A5. I kept looking back, thinking something was being me, it is spooky. It is most likely due to the new 5" midrange. To my ears, it is superb.

HenryD,

I can concur. I currently have approx. 100 hours on my A5's and the midrange is spooky good. Male & female voices have a presence I haven't heard before with other speakers.

 

[Rhapsody]

Matt Clott, reviewer for TAS, visited Rhapsody a month ago and listened to the A5's, here is his report.

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/magico-a5-loudspeaker-preview/

 

[MadFloyd]

Nice, report, I found this interesting:
"My first impressions of Magico’s low-end performance, years ago, was that it was light in the bass and lacked impact and rhythmic drive. I have since learned to appreciate what sealed enclosures do better, just as I have learned to appreciate a beautifully crafted rye whiskey. Bass is not just a matter of impact and scale, it’s also about a clean, articulate, absolutely phase-linear presentation that neither calls attention to itself nor needs to apologize for any deficiencies. "

 

[PeterA]

Thanks for the link, Bob. I found this comment quite interesting:

"A phone interview with Alon gave insight into the pride he has in his newest innovations. He described how the new 5" aluminum honeycomb matrix with unique foam surround results in better dispersion, inaudible breakup, a reduction in distortion, and improved fidelity. He also explained that the A5 cabinet is as damped and rigid as that of the M2 speaker, but lacks the added benefits of a curved cabinet."

I presume the curved M cabinets reduce defraction and in theory are better able to disappear as a sound sources. I did read that Wolf said that making curved aluminum side panels would be incredibly expensive, but one does see them in the S series. I wonder if they will continue down the carbon enclosure path of the M9/6/2 for their top line. The M9 would imply that they will, but why could they now make the A5 with curved aluminum sides? Perhaps they will and it will be called the new R5 or S5III.

 

[Rhapsody]

Thanks for the link, Bob. I found this comment quite interesting:

"A phone interview with Alon gave insight into the pride he has in his newest innovations. He described how the new 5" aluminum honeycomb matrix with unique foam surround results in better dispersion, inaudible breakup, a reduction in distortion, and improved fidelity. He also explained that the A5 cabinet is as damped and rigid as that of the M2 speaker, but lacks the added benefits of a curved cabinet."

I presume the curved M cabinets reduce defraction and in theory are better able to disappear as a sound sources. I did read that Wolf said that making curved aluminum side panels would be incredibly expensive, but one does see them in the S series. I wonder if they will continue down the carbon enclosure path of the M9/6/2 for their top line. The M9 would imply that they will, but why could they now make the A5 with curved aluminum sides? Perhaps they will and it will be called the new R5 or S5III.

It will definitely be interesting to see the what comes in the future from Alon/Magico. I think somehow more interesting at this point vs. in the past.