In general my digital is better than my vinyl. but my vinyl is better than my digital

[Kingrex]

More and more I am finding I listen to digital more than vinyl, and its beyond ease of use and content. For the most part, my digital playback exceeds that of vinyl. BUT, my vinyl is a better medium and overall plays better. What does this mean. It means the average Joe record from a used store is good, but many of the digital copies I stream are superior. But, for example, the 45 rpm remasters on heavy vinyl that are done right are amazing on vinyl. More so than anything I can find on digital.

 

[Mikem53]

I spent some time this weekend at my friends house listening to some music.. He’s heavy into vinyl and has a great sounding system. VPI, Manley steelhead, VSR VR7’s, BAT REXX monos.. He played some Bowie, a British pressing of “Hunkey Dory” the song “Bewlay Brothers” was outstanding ! dynamics galore and lots of detail emerged, more so than I was expecting.. I came away impressed once again at his system.. I went home and fired up my ripped CD version of the same.. Trying to get a handle on what I may be missing.. He came by later that evening to pick up some cables.. I sat him down and played the same track. He was amazed that the digital playback was so involving and so close to his beloved pressing..
He‘s now considering the Yggdrasil for his system.. not Just for the convenience... but for the SQ as well..

 

[Kingrex]

What a room full of media. And that is the way it should be. If equal attention are paid to both media, they should be darn close. Close enough the media itself should dictate which is best.

 

[BlueFox]

With my Lumin X1 I can make multiple playlists with up to 2000 songs per list. I can then listen to hours of music without moving, and it sounds fantastic. With vinyl I would have to get up every 15-20 minutes to change records. Each record has to be cleaned to be played, and each record deteriorates each time it is played. I got rid of my turntable and records in the 80s, and have no desire to return to 19th century technology.

 

[Kingrex]

With my Lumin X1 I can make multiple playlists with up to 2000 songs per list. I can then listen to hours of music without moving, and it sounds fantastic. With vinyl I would have to get up every 15-20 minutes to change records. Each record has to be cleaned to be played, and each record deteriorates each time it is played. I got rid of my turntable and records in the 80s, and have no desire to return to 19th century technology.

I love my records because the music stops after 20 minutes. It keeps it from droning on and on and on. It's a time to reflect and reset.

 

[Ron Resnick]

With my Lumin X1 I can make multiple playlists with up to 2000 songs per list. I can then listen to hours of music without moving, and it sounds fantastic. With vinyl I would have to get up every 15-20 minutes to change records. Each record has to be cleaned to be played, and each record deteriorates each time it is played. . . .

Nobody ever claimed vinyl is easier and more convenient than digital.

 

[Ron Resnick]

. . .
I got rid of my turntable and records in the 80s, and have no desire to return to 19th century technology.

I have no nostalgic affection for 19th Century technology. (For that matter, I have no nostalgic affection for 20th Century technology. I would be delighted to be able to sell hundreds of pounds of vinyl playback equipment, and all of the LPs, and all of the record-cleaning paraphernalia, and to keep only a little DAC + streamer box and an iPad.)

Unfortunately, my ear-brain system finds that 19th Century technology to be the most emotionally-involving way to play back the music I love.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Personally I prefer the sound from the 8-track cartridge player in my horse and cart.

 

[twitch]

I have no nostalgic affection for 19th Century technology. (For that matter, I have no nostalgic affection for 20th Century technology. I would be delighted to be able to sell hundreds of pounds of vinyl playback equipment, and all of the LPs, and all of the record-cleaning paraphernalia, and to keep only a little DAC + streamer box and an iPad.)

Unfortunately, my ear-brain system finds that 19th Century technology to be the most emotionally-involving way to play back the music I love.

LOL Ron, I hear you as I too still enjoy the certain rituals with LP playback. It along with my 54 year old Corvette are but two 20th Century technologies that I hope I never grow tired of !

 

[montesquieu]

I can't believe that we are still having this argument. I remember back in the 80s the heated discussions. As someone even then with a decent collection of baroque and early music - some of it quite rare at the time - I argued that CD would never catch on to the point where it would replace vinyl.

There was just too much really good stuff that it would never be economic to make and sell for £13 GBP a CD (full price records were about £5 at the time). In a way I was wrong but it took a good 15-20 years for the CD ecosystem in rarer/less mass-market music to match what it was on vinyl in the mid to late 80s, and it didn't last all that long as the world of streaming - again focused in its early says on the mass-market - began to cannibalise the marketplace.

Of course vinyl in the classical world is now dominated by re-releases of big name orchestral potboiler stuff often previously made famous by 'collectors' (some of them inexplicably in my view), or by a few heavily promoted releases by the big labels, some of them downright awful (in the latest example, I would argue that Lang Lang should face a firing squad, along with whoever his producer was at DG, for crimes against humanity as well as against the Goldberg Variations). It's almost impossible to get new early music on vinyl, though quite a bit is still being made on CD.

Anwyay, it seems that baroque, renaissance and medieval music collection on vinyl may never be adequately replaced. All of which is a very long-winded way of saying - I don't think it's possible for some of us to move to digtal, regardless how good it gets. Over the years I have become reconciled to the CD. But I doubt I will ever take to the notion of 'playlists' or the idea that to listen to music, I have to use a computer screen. For me the lack of a tactile connection easily cancels out any 'convenience' or, indeed, any sonic advances from file based or streamed replay.

 

[microstrip]

I have no nostalgic affection for 19th Century technology. (For that matter, I have no nostalgic affection for 20th Century technology. I would be delighted to be able to sell hundreds of pounds of vinyl playback equipment, and all of the LPs, and all of the record-cleaning paraphernalia, and to keep only a little DAC + streamer box and an iPad.)

Unfortunately, my ear-brain system finds that 19th Century technology to be the most emotionally-involving way to play back the music I love.

Remember that What you hear is not the air pressure variation in itself but what has drawn your attention in the streams of superimposed air pressure variations at your eardrums. (from https://www.linkwitzlab.com/Recording/Stereo-recording.htm)

In stereo we will mostly hear what we want or what we have been trained to hear. If it was not for my desire of listening to current recordings I would still be happy just with the vinyl format reproduction. But once we listen to 21th century technology and recordings at their best we become more exigent.

And sorry, IMHO enjoying digital at its best is not just owning a little DAC + streamer box and an iPad. If you are so demanding in vinyl why shouldn't you also be demanding in digital?

 

[sbo6]

I love my records because the music stops after 20 minutes. It keeps it from droning on and on and on. It's a time to reflect and reset.

You could always simply pause the digital and reflect away. ;-)

 

[sbo6]

Over the years I have become reconciled to the CD. But I doubt I will ever take to the notion of 'playlists' or the idea that to listen to music, I have to use a computer screen. For me the lack of a tactile connection easily cancels out any 'convenience' or, indeed, any sonic advances from file based or streamed replay.

Nostalgia, it's a hell of a drug..

 

[montesquieu]

Nostalgia, it's a hell of a drug..

Not nostalgia. I've spent over 30 years working with IT. I spend my working day with three screens in front of me. Simply NOT INTERESTED in using one in my off-time. And why on earth should I with 4000 LPs and 2000 CDs at my disposal?

 

[montesquieu]

You could always simply pause the digital and reflect away. ;-)

Actually that's a major issue with digital more generally and has been since long before streaming.

Very few people have the attention span to be still actively/continuously engaged 55 minutes into a 67 minute CD never mind a 200-item playlist. There is something quite natural about the rhythm of 20 minutes a side. Even your average classical concert - which is a setting far more geared up to intensive listening than sitting in your living room with all its distractions - seldom lasts more than an hour without an interval (and is usually more like 45-50 minutes, two sides of an LP). Same applies to a jazz set. The musicians' attention and ability to focus and project, and the listeners' ability to listen, react and appreciate, operate in sync.

One of my issues with CD when it came out - that its capabilty for instant stop-start-flick-forward cheapened the musical experience - is there in even worse form with streamed music, and the fact that music no longer has to be purchased and looked after, no sleeve notes to read or artwork to enjoy, cheapens the experience further. If music is merely an unmetered, all but free commodity, like water, how can we ever come to value it in the same way as we valued the album from our youth we saved for and played over and over again till we knew every word, every note, every inflection?

Indeed I strongly believe that the ability to touch an object, the delay between selection and gratification, the ritual of playback, and feelings of ownership and personal relationship with owned music are as much a driver of the vinyl revival in recent years than anything to do with sound quality. Satisfaction operates on many levels.

I guess this is a little like the thinking behind the Italian 'slow food' movement. But I guess there will always be people happy with a burger.

 

[Mikem53]

I have none of the issues mentioned above with owning and listening to Digital, nor do I miss the stacks of vinyl, interfacing with it every 20 minutes, cleaning it, etc ...
What I do like is sitting down and Listening to music !, and having a wide selection of music I love and own, and the ability to easily access it all and listen to just about anything out there..
It was never the convenience that attracted me to digital, but the promise of bit perfect music reproduction without some of the limitations and issues associated with vinyl playback..
I enjoy Good vinyl as I do Good digital, I just prefer the latter and it’s potential.

 

[assessor43]

One distinct difference I notice between vinyl and digital is the levels of quietness and blackness on vinyl. The same recordings are always louder on digital. More or less the same level of loudness. Vinyl gets quiet and gets loud. More variation in loudness on Vinyl. Everything tends to sound the same loudness on digital. Thats been my experience.

 

[Al M.]

One distinct difference I notice between vinyl and digital is the levels of quietness and blackness on vinyl. The same recordings are always louder on digital. More or less the same level of loudness. Vinyl gets quiet and gets loud. More variation in loudness on Vinyl. Everything tends to sound the same loudness on digital. Thats been my experience.

Depends on the music. With classical you definitely do not have that problem on digital -- extreme dynamic variation throughout, in some cases more than on vinyl (in particular orchestral can sometimes be dynamically compressed on vinyl). With jazz you have that problem rarely as well.

While rock/pop is indeed affected by the 'loudness wars', I also know a good number of rock/pop albums on digital with great dynamic variation.

 

[Ultrafast69]

I have not grown old to this statement, to the contrary I believe it to be good in discussing it especially as it’s a common denominator versus being gear specific. Maybe it helps someone that comes along?

First before I get into what version or remaster I look to see how the music is recorded if from an analog source or a digital source and digital gets tricky because it could be transferred from tape. I am not aware of the streaming decribing the recording process so it’s not easy, and in many cases a guessing game.

If the source is known with an analog vinyl selection , and your digital sounds better, I would say first is the digital transferred from tape or direct to vinyl? Then I would also look at the turntable for setup, something may be off. The nudge IMO goes to the vinyl for the what I call the smoothness of sound, meaning no digital edge from the digital to analog conversion.

Speaking of digital it has become a loose term, at least to me. While the process into pressing is the same, I am discovering there is a separation between streaming and disc with the nudge to CD, more so on SACD - it’s a whole separate conversation.

 

[Kingrex]

Ultrafast, Do you feel the nudge with SACD is there if your comparing to say a high resolution filed stored on the server?

And have you tried SACD through your Opo with the new clocks installed?

I find streaming to always be a tad behind stored media on the server. Not much, but audible. I am not sure how streaming stacks up against stored media on my NAS as I have not had the NAS in operation for quite a while. And I have never optimised the power, isolation and cabling as well as software of my Synology.