In general my digital is better than my vinyl. but my vinyl is better than my digital

[Alrainbow]

I spent some time this weekend at my friends house listening to some music.. He’s heavy into vinyl and has a great sounding system. VPI, Manley steelhead, VSR VR7’s, BAT REXX monos.. He played some Bowie, a British pressing of “Hunkey Dory” the song “Bewlay Brothers” was outstanding ! dynamics galore and lots of detail emerged, more so than I was expecting.. I came away impressed once again at his system.. I went home and fired up my ripped CD version of the same.. Trying to get a handle on what I may be missing.. He came by later that evening to pick up some cables.. I sat him down and played the same track. He was amazed that the digital playback was so involving and so close to his beloved pressing..
He‘s now considering the Yggdrasil for his system.. not Just for the convenience... but for the SQ as well..
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Wait until he gets away from the VPI , merry go round time ..

 

[Alrainbow]

With my Lumin X1 I can make multiple playlists with up to 2000 songs per list. I can then listen to hours of music without moving, and it sounds fantastic. With vinyl I would have to get up every 15-20 minutes to change records. Each record has to be cleaned to be played, and each record deteriorates each time it is played. I got rid of my turntable and records in the 80s, and have no desire to return to 19th century technology.

To each his own , being a fully embedded Digital guy and new to analog TT , I wouldnt give it up for anything , its fantastic for those times i wanna play with it and the SQ makes the effort worthwhile ..

 

[Alrainbow]

Remember that What you hear is not the air pressure variation in itself but what has drawn your attention in the streams of superimposed air pressure variations at your eardrums. (from https://www.linkwitzlab.com/Recording/Stereo-recording.htm)

In stereo we will mostly hear what we want or what we have been trained to hear. If it was not for my desire of listening to current recordings I would still be happy just with the vinyl format reproduction. But once we listen to 21th century technology and recordings at their best we become more exigent.

And sorry, IMHO enjoying digital at its best is not just owning a little DAC + streamer box and an iPad. If you are so demanding in vinyl why shouldn't you also be demanding in digital?

In some circles some would add ( fill in the blank its all relative ..!

 

[Alrainbow]

One distinct difference I notice between vinyl and digital is the levels of quietness and blackness on vinyl. The same recordings are always louder on digital. More or less the same level of loudness. Vinyl gets quiet and gets loud. More variation in loudness on Vinyl. Everything tends to sound the same loudness on digital. Thats been my experience.

I would say differently that vinyl gets smaller and softer , ( not quieter ) making the dynamic passage seem relatively better to digital ..

Analog midrange is to die for , voices just pop out and appears much more natural sounding ..

 

[Mikem53]

I would say differently that vinyl gets smaller and softer , ( not quieter ) making the dynamic passage seem relatively better to digital ..

Analog midrange is to die for , voices just pop out and appears much more natural sounding ..

The difference between the loudest and softest sounds an LP can play is about 70 decibels (dB). CDs can handle over 90 dB. In practical terms, this means that CDs have more than 10 times the dynamic range of LPs.

 

[montesquieu]

The difference between the loudest and softest sounds an LP can play is about 70 decibels (dB). CDs can handle over 90 dB. In practical terms, this means that CDs have more than 10 times the dynamic range of LPs.

So we were told, ad infinitum, back in the 80s, by the measurbating fraternity. Though it's fair to say that additional range is almost never evident in an actual retail CD or dowload, due to the limitations of consumer playback equipment.

Somewhat paradoxically, it's in the nature of replay to require some degree of compression before reproduced sound can be realistic. It's a commonplace observation that vinyl sounds more dynamic than CD, I wouldn't pretend to understand why that is but it's interesting to note that human perception seems to hear things that way.

 

[Al M.]

So we were told, ad infinitum, back in the 80s, by the measurbating fraternity. Though it's fair to say that additional range is almost never evident in an actual retail CD or dowload, due to the limitations of consumer playback equipment.

Somewhat paradoxically, it's in the nature of replay to require some degree of compression before reproduced sound can be realistic. It's a commonplace observation that vinyl sounds more dynamic than CD, I wouldn't pretend to understand why that is but it's interesting to note that human perception seems to hear things that way.

There is rarely a recording with more than 70 dB dynamic headroom. And no, vinyl does not sound more dynamic than CD, unless the playback is suboptimal (in the early CD days, vinyl still did). And yes, vinyl can sound very dynamic. So can CD.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Remember that What you hear is not the air pressure variation in itself but what has drawn your attention in the streams of superimposed air pressure variations at your eardrums. (from https://www.linkwitzlab.com/Recording/Stereo-recording.htm)

. . .

I promise I am not being sarcastic; I am asking genuinely why do I care about this?

Even if true, what does this matter?

 

[Ron Resnick]

. . .
And sorry, IMHO enjoying digital at its best is not just owning a little DAC + streamer box and an iPad. If you are so demanding in vinyl why shouldn't you also be demanding in digital?

Nothing to be sorry about; of course you are correct that enjoying digital at its best is not just owning a little DAC + streamer box and an iPad.

Someone may be demanding in vinyl but not digital. Someone may be demanding in digital but not vinyl. (Someone may be demanding in both.) I don't see why the former necessarily dictates the latter.

 

[microstrip]

I promise I am not being sarcastic; I am asking genuinely why do I care about this?

Even if true, what does this matter?

Well, this sentence is the essence of stereo reproduction. I used it just as introduction to the whole post, linking it to the Siegfried Linkwitz article, that explains in detail some of the possible reasons of your emotional connection.

 

[microstrip]

Nothing to be sorry about; of course you are correct that enjoying digital at its best is not just owning a little DAC + streamer box and an iPad.

Someone may be demanding in vinyl but not digital. Someone may be demanding in digital but not vinyl. (Someone may be demanding in both.) I don't see why the former necessarily dictates the latter.

Surely - each of us has its priorities. But if we want to discuss experiences our degree of exigence is relevant. I am demanding in stereo sound reproduction, independently of media. Tout court.

 

[DSkip]

Regardless of where you fall I encourage my clients that whichever format or file type you prioritize or want the most dictates what you should focus on. I'm not heavily invested in digital (and currently not invested in analog) but I have a lot of experience with a multitude of streamers and dacs and can tell you that if you aren't getting quality digital then you aren't optimizing your system for it. I find it not impossible, but difficult, to get similar quality out of both analog and digital in the same system.

I think analog is similar to tubes in a way - tubes have the ability to kind of 'mask' issues in the system when you are entering the hobby and those masks make our experiences better. When it comes to solid state and digital, quality pieces are much more demanding and expecting of quality pieces around them. This isn't to say analog or tube systems aren't demanding, but the delta between good and bad will vary much greater with SS/digital. Perhaps this is because of the precise nature of SS/digital.

YMMV, but these opinions are based on my experiences in my own systems and in clients' homes.

 

[Alrainbow]

The difference between the loudest and softest sounds an LP can play is about 70 decibels (dB). CDs can handle over 90 dB. In practical terms, this means that CDs have more than 10 times the dynamic range of LPs.

I didn't say it had less , what i said was the “perception” is it appears to have less because it does not get as soft and as small as Vinyl .

 

[Alrainbow]

Regardless of where you fall I encourage my clients that whichever format or file type you prioritize or want the most dictates what you should focus on. I'm not heavily invested in digital (and currently not invested in analog) but I have a lot of experience with a multitude of streamers and dacs and can tell you that if you aren't getting quality digital then you aren't optimizing your system for it. I find it not impossible, but difficult, to get similar quality out of both analog and digital in the same system.

I think analog is similar to tubes in a way - tubes have the ability to kind of 'mask' issues in the system when you are entering the hobby and those masks make our experiences better. When it comes to solid state and digital, quality pieces are much more demanding and expecting of quality pieces around them. This isn't to say analog or tube systems aren't demanding, but the delta between good and bad will vary much greater with SS/digital. Perhaps this is because of the precise nature of SS/digital.

YMMV, but these opinions are based on my experiences in my own systems and in clients' homes.

Hello ,

From observation , Good analog doesn't mask hide or smear and in actuality takes more power and require really powerful dynamic Wide bandwidth speakers to hear it properly than digital..

Limited smaller speakers and systems will sound much better with digital ..

IMO

 

[DSkip]

Hello ,

From observation , Good analog doesn't mask hide or smear and in actuality takes more power and require really powerful dynamic Wide bandwidth speakers to hear it properly than digital..

Limited smaller speakers and systems will sound much better with digital ..

IMO

Please note my discussion did not imply that higher tier gear fits the mold. I am discussing more the entry to mid level point that starts our obsessions in this hobby and can dictate which path we go down as we continue to grow.

 

[bazelio]

There is rarely a recording with more than 70 dB dynamic headroom. And no, vinyl does not sound more dynamic than CD, unless the playback is suboptimal (in the early CD days, vinyl still did). And yes, vinyl can sound very dynamic. So can CD.

Both can sound more dynamic. However, often the CD mastering produces a less dynamic sound than the vinyl counterpart. This says nothing of the potential of either format.

 

[Al M.]

Both can sound more dynamic. However, often the CD mastering produces a less dynamic sound than the vinyl counterpart. This says nothing of the potential of either format.

Agreed. Yet less dynamic CD mastering mostly applies to rock/pop, rarely to jazz, almost never to classical.

 

[bazelio]

Agreed. Yet less dynamic CD mastering mostly applies to rock/pop, rarely to jazz, almost never to classical.

Modern jazz, a lot of it anyhow, seems limited to the CD format only. I don't know how this stuff sounds as I generally don't care for it. In the case of older jazz, it generally wasn't crushed to hell quite like rock/pop when it was remastered for CD, but I will say that it almost always sounds more dull to me than on vinyl. And then as a side note, there are many well-done remasters limited to vinyl only.

 

[Kingrex]

The difference between the loudest and softest sounds an LP can play is about 70 decibels (dB). CDs can handle over 90 dB. In practical terms, this means that CDs have more than 10 times the dynamic range of LPs.

I think this is over played in importance. I really don't give a crap if I can drive my audio way out of comfortable listening levels. There is a sweet spot where the system comes alive. Its probably around mid 70 db. The loudest I probably listen to my system is around 85 to 87 db.

So, why then would I care if a CD was capable of ear damaging volume levels. What I look for in good music playback is speed, natural tone, natural bass, harmonic complexity and richness, without bloat or flab. Instruments should sound like the real thing, They should project into the room and the sound stage should be tactile. Who gives a crap about hearing the smallest of a whisper I cant even hear because my room itself is too loud (windows, planes, cars). Then have that whisper turn into a jump from my seat and lower the volume experience. All the Jazz and classical I have easily fits in a pleasant volume level with its lowest and highest passages pleasantly presented. I find too many people get all tied up on math when it comes to their stereo. Its about music. Lively engaging musical involvement. Your super loud CD may for all intents and purposes be so full of noise and jitter it sound like total crap. Fatiguing and forcing everyone from the room. But hey, it plays loud so its good???????

My point is that with vinyl and digital, both can be intoxicatingly involving. In my setup at this time, the vinyl still nudges out the digital with the best source material. But its all pretty close. And with a better DAC it may flip. And with a better Phono preamp it may flip again, and again and again.

 

[Ultrafast69]

Ultrafast, Do you feel the nudge with SACD is there if your comparing to say a high resolution filed stored on the server?

And have you tried SACD through your Opo with the new clocks installed?

I find streaming to always be a tad behind stored media on the server. Not much, but audible. I am not sure how streaming stacks up against stored media on my NAS as I have not had the NAS in operation for quite a while. And I have never optimised the power, isolation and cabling as well as software of my Synology.

Ultrafast, Do you feel the nudge with SACD is there if your comparing to say a high resolution filed stored on the server?

And have you tried SACD through your Opo with the new clocks installed?

I find streaming to always be a tad behind stored media on the server. Not much, but audible. I am not sure how streaming stacks up against stored media on my NAS as I have not had the NAS in operation for quite a while. And I have never optimised the power, isolation and cabling as well as software of my

No, I haven’t done that comparison only because I like to compare the same album but will find one of Qobuz or HDTracks, probably Qobuz that way it should be the same as the streaming version.