What Tube Preamps Synergize Well with CH Precision?

[LL21]

I have not heard Robert's gear as there aren't any places in my neck of the woods that have it. I did speak to him a few times via email and we had a very cordial conversation as I was interested in discussing US representation.

Do let us know what you think if you get to hear it.

I think that his original training ground of Kondo San in Japan, his extreme purist ethos...but also his inclination to be absolutely agnostic as to design approach, seeking only what extreme form of design he thinks suits his sound best...is clear in his current sound.

He started out with SS preamps and the K70 tubed amp...3-box version. And then over 11 years has finally designed extremely powerful (230Watt Pure Class A into 4 ohm) amps which by all accounts are truly Robert Koda hallmarks in sound quality/character. As for design, he moved to SS, but he does not have massive capacitors, instead using his power reactor design, does not have global negative feedback (but still manages insanely low levels of distortion that go toe to toe with major high end names that do)...I candidly do not understand it, but could see the difference between the inside of the Gryphon and the K160s (no, no photos).

In speaking with him and several owners, I gravitated towards his design approach, ethos and priorities in sound. And in speaking with him, found myself more and more interested...frankly blown away after taking the plunge on the preamp. And then going full guns blazing with the K160 monos which have proven to be arguably even more remarkable by the standard they set than his mighty preamp.

 

[MadFloyd]

Wow! Didn't know you had got the Koda amps.... congratulations!!!

 

[MadFloyd]

Can anyone compare Dartzeel to CH for me? I know MadFloyd has owned both brands but the Dart amp wasn’t enough juice for his speakers.

I have a Dartzeel preamp. It is beefy and warm sounding compared to CH L1 or L10, but not as transparent/clean and timbre isn't quite as realistic.

I cannot comment on amps but I suspect the Dartzeel amps are brighter than CH (based on MF's review of the CH amps where he said they were warmer).

 

[LL21]

Wow! Didn't know you had got the Koda amps.... congratulations!!!

Hey MadFloyd,

Thank you. Yes, a big leap indeed and an incredibly rewarding one. We have both stepped up in a big way in our respective systems over the years since we last sat down at Goodwins. Your whole system has transformed, and it has been fun to watch it emerge after some pretty serious tribulations you had going on...nice to see you really settling into the system.

On my side, it was more seredipitous. The CJ/Gryphon amp I had when we met in Boston (5 years ago?!) really only just evolved to the bigger, badder versions of the same (Colosseum to Mephisto). But then a minor repair let loose an opportunity that took flight and grew into a whirlwind which was the move across entirely to Robert Koda within 12 months. In my experience, super special stuff. This is real artistry and technical marvels at the same time. Sounds very much like a similar revelation with you and CH.

 

[MadFloyd]

Hey MadFloyd,

Thank you. Yes, a big leap indeed and an incredibly rewarding one. We have both stepped up in a big way in our respective systems over the years since we last sat down at Goodwins. Your whole system has transformed, and it has been fun to watch it emerge after some pretty serious tribulations you had going on...nice to see you really settling into the system.

On my side, it was more seredipitous. The CJ/Gryphon amp I had when we met in Boston (5 years ago?!) really only just evolved to the bigger, badder versions of the same (Colosseum to Mephisto). But then a minor repair let loose an opportunity that took flight and grew into a whirlwind which was the move across entirely to Robert Koda within 12 months. In my experience, super special stuff. This is real artistry and technical marvels at the same time. Sounds very much like a similar revelation with you and CH.

Yes indeed, we both have come a long way... and neither of us have tubes now lol.

I have no doubt from everything I've read that I would enjoy Robert Koda. One day I hope to hear his artistry.

Enjoy!

 

[andromedaaudio]

Yes indeed, we both have come a long way... and neither of us have tubes now lol.

Sure ,.... but does any of your solid state power amps throw the massive soundstage the CAT does ??

 

[LL21]

Yes indeed, we both have come a long way... and neither of us have tubes now lol.

I have no doubt from everything I've read that I would enjoy Robert Koda. One day I hope to hear his artistry.

Enjoy!

And I will let you know when at some point I hear CH...I have heard it from a few that the L10 is particularly special in the overall CH lineup which is known to be spectacular as it is.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I hope to hear them also , i like clean amplification .
Next year munchen for sure

 

[MadFloyd]

Sure ,.... but does any of your solid state power amps throw the massive soundstage the CAT does ??

Well I only have one pair of solid state power amps, the CH M1.1s.

It might depend on how you define 'large'. Overall size? Width? Depth and spatial layering? Image size?

It's possible the CAT may be slightly larger at lower volumes due to the 'bloom' it creates.
The CAT has more spatial layering and depth.
I don't think there's any difference in width or height.
There is more solidity with CH.
There is more authority with CH.
The CH sounds much less strained (with my speakers at least).
The CH sounds cleaner.
The CH sounds less colored.

 

[andromedaaudio]

There is more solidity with CH.
There is more authority with CH.
The CH sounds much less strained (with my speakers at least).

I mean big as in it blows a bigger dynamic bubble in which all is happening .

Regarding CH .

That might indeed be due to the fact your M pro s are a bit to much for the 150 W/p ch CAT tubes ( to ultimately control the speaker properly .)
I dont know the impedance graph/ efficiency of the M pro s , but the Q5 s i heard last year were not very power friendly it took some high power TAD monos to control them .

 

[andromedaaudio]

The CH sounds cleaner.
The CH sounds less colored.

 

[Tango]

IMO CH is a product that works incredibly well as a system, as it was designed to be. This does hold true for most high end companies as if you want to hear what their gear was designed to sound like then I believe listen to it as it was intended. This does not mean you can't mix and match but mix and match usually leads to being dissatisfied . I don't say this lightly it is my experience over 40 plus years. Products that are designed to be used together , work properly and will show the end result of the designs. CH is a product that I feel really strongly with this as I have had three clients buy the amps and run their digital straight through and a few others that mixed some other preamp and ALL of them within one year of buying the amp tried and PURCHASED a CH preamp. It just completes the system.
If the amp and preamp you have doesn't sound good together it should be telling you something. A word to the wise!

@marty. Look forward to see how your amp/preamp progress sir.

 

[knghifi]

That might indeed be due to the fact your M pro s are a bit to much for the 150 W/p ch CAT tubes ( to ultimately control the speaker properly .)

CAT JL7SE rated 220 wpc.

 

[andromedaaudio]

CAT JL7SE rated 220 wpc.

Yes you re right but 8 tubes / 40 kg
Cat JL 3 16 Tubes p ch 80 kg .
Does CAT skip on the power supply with the new models??

Coming back to the CH M 10 series there is a reason they come with seperate power supply.

 

[JackD201]

The CH amps are actually very easy to match with preamps of other marks because they have adjustable gain. The question for me would be why I'd do it at all. There's a purity to the CH sound that I really like and mixing changes that at that expense. If I loved my tube pre that much presumably because I like its signature, II'd just go with a strong, fairly neutral amp of which there are many and at less cost.

On the technical side, CH is best run Hi-Z. No DC blocking. I stopped using the JP66 because of DC leakage. Hello P1.

Mix if you will but be aware of that very important factor. The amps are capable of very high power and fixing speakers and burning them in AGAIN is one of the biggest pains in the ass.

CH is used as a set for fundamental reasons not fashionable ones.

 

[knghifi]

Yes you re right but 8 tubes / 40 kg
Cat JL 3 16 Tubes p ch 80 kg .
Does CAT skip on the power supply with the new models??

Coming back to the CH M 10 series there is a reason they come with seperate power supply.

3600 joules per pair of JL7SE

 

[MadFloyd]

3600 joules per pair of JL7SE

Yeah, the SE has a much bigger transformer.... it's a wolf in sheep's clothing

 

[andromedaaudio]

But not like the Old JL 3 s had .
Biggest transformers in the world thats what pulled me over lol
It doesnt state energy storage , but the weight ( transformers / caps ) decreased substantially .

 

[Atmasphere]

But for those who want to inject tube magic into their system, which tube preamps work great?

If you are looking at tube preamps, since the amps have balanced inputs, you might consider a preamp that has balanced inputs also. But if you do that, ask if the preamp supports the balanced line standard (also known as AES48). This is handy as the system will be less susceptable to issues with interconnect cables, allowing you to run longer cables without degradation (although the benefit is there even if the cable is only 1 foot long), generally lower noise and distortion (blacker background) and less likelihood of ground loops.

 

[Atmasphere]

But not like the Old JL 3 s had .
Biggest transformers in the world thats what pulled me over lol
It doesnt state energy storage , but the weight ( transformers / caps ) decreased substantially .

Does it count if the amp has multiple power transformers? There's a point where a power transformer can get so large that it gets really difficult to control mechanical noise and support it in the chassis. So it becomes practical to break up the power transformer functions to control noise, radiated magnetic fields and improve reliability.