DarTZeel and Mcintosh - help in picking amp

[Addicted to hifi]

What you re saying is : Dartzeel is more of a "snobbish" thing.. like Aston Martin compared to Porsche (in this case Mcintosh) I like your signature btw

It's just really hard when you are building your first system to make the right choice.. whatever that may be..

In this case I like the looks of the 1502 more than the looks of the DarTZeel.. I know you don't hear looks but when I really really had to do my beast to hear a difference.. then I guess it's too close to call on a sonic level...resale value also comes into play..

I can get the DarTZeel considerably cheaper than MSRP (19 instead of 33k) but I don't think there are many dartzeel buyers on the used market whereas mcintosh I guess will be easier to sell.. except I do need to pay MSRP..

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The 1502 is a stunning amplifier and As you say it’s easier to sell if you wanna do that.I to use an all mcintosh system and couldn’t be happier.

 

[Carlos269]

What you re saying is : Dartzeel is more of a "snobbish" thing.. like Aston Martin compared to Porsche (in this case Mcintosh) I like your signature btw

It's just really hard when you are building your first system to make the right choice.. whatever that may be..

In this case I like the looks of the 1502 more than the looks of the DarTZeel.. I know you don't hear looks but when I really really had to do my beast to hear a difference.. then I guess it's too close to call on a sonic level...resale value also comes into play..

I can get the DarTZeel considerably cheaper than MSRP (19 instead of 33k) but I don't think there are many dartzeel buyers on the used market whereas mcintosh I guess will be easier to sell.. except I do need to pay MSRP..

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Follow your ears and don’t get caught up in the nonsense that goes on here, with some trying to pass off a supreme hierarchy, as there is no such thing. If you notice, many post and encourage others to get what they have purchased as a form of affirmation. Some posters come on here and make their comments with such assertion that you have to either challenge their insights or question their motives. If I was you, I would ask the Dartzeel proponents if they have listen to McIntosh 1502 and what they think of its sound. Many, if not all, have never heard it and based their opinion simply on the component’s cost or the brand’s panache. You have to decide for yourself if you want to pay for sound quality or for a pretentious display for others.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

Over the years I have owned many different high end brands far more expensive than mcintosh. At the end of the day mcintosh was better sounding and less expensive than all of them and reviews from around the world prove this is true.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

Also had one more question.. for people still reading this thread..

Why do I have this subconscious feeling that solid state amps are superior to tube amps ? I also think the average hifi shop sells - out of a 100
amps - 90 solid state amps ? ???

At least the shops I visited it seems that way.

on the other hand I love the look of a tube amp.. and they don’t sound bad at all ??

Solid state amplifiers are a lot easier as there’s no worries with tubes.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

My mcintosh system is all solid state as I cart be bothered with tubes.I use it every day about 3 hours a day.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

Follow your ears and don’t get caught up in the nonsense that goes on here, with some trying to pass off a supreme hierarchy, as there is no such thing. If you notice, many post and encourage others to get what they have purchased as a form of affirmation. Some posters come on here and make their comments with such assertion that you have to either challenge their insights or question their motives. If I was you, I would ask the Dartzeel proponents if they have listen to McIntosh 1502 and what they think of its sound. Many, if not all, have never heard it and based their opinion simply on the component’s cost or the brand’s panache. You have to decide for yourself if you want to pay for sound quality or for a pretentious display for others.

Agree.always trust your ears only.

 

[germinal]

Solid state amplifiers are a lot easier as there’s no worries with tubes.

What are the worries with tubes ?

 

[andromedaaudio]

What are the worries with tubes ?

I guess it depends on amp brands.
Some tube amp designs run very hot and are more likely to last less long
The Mc intosh is a beautifull amp and the brand has years of tube expirience .
I guess you need to change the tubes once in a while .
Ask the dealer ( or the company themselves) , if he is a good dealer he can tell exactly how long they will last or look on the net for info

Ps i dont listen that often because of working abroad and my power amp tubes are 8 years old without change , and still beating SS .
Pre amp tubes you need to change more often lets say every 3 years.

May be its based on bad expiriences with other brands / certain models that gave tubes the image of being more maintenance over the years .

I never had a problem with my current amp brand convergent audio.

Id say my tubes are less costly in the long run as they are superior sounding to solid state , and i dont need to change amps anymore

Regarding dartzeel afaik there is hardly a dealer in NL that carries it .
Probably due to price versus performance ratio .
You know how the dutch are , they dont like to overspend

I think most people who are not hifi junkies like a lot on WBF just like some clean maintenance free good looking boxes in their home which make good music.

I think there is also a status factor in high end audio connected to some brands .
Its for yourself to find out if they actually deliver or are just a mere product of brand pushing / large marketing budgets

Ps it also depends a bit on how low efficiency your speakers are and how low the impedance goes , the harder the tubes have to work the more hot/ stressed they get i reckon
The Mc intosh looks very sturdy/ well constructed

 

[Addicted to hifi]

What are the worries with tubes ?

What are the worries with tubes ?

Known when to replace them when there worn out.they sometimes can fail without warning.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Once in a while i listen to the tweeters and if they exhibit excessive noise its time to change a pre amp tube.
Power amp tubes i never had a problem with , only once 1 failed .
I knew it because the tube lights went out in that particular tube , i changed it and that was that.

Its not a sound quality thing its a noise thing regarding changing tubes ime
I also never bother with expensive NOS tubes anymore .
I just buy cheap new replacements and they work fine .
I have bought NOS before and they exhibited noise very quickly for a high price .
Tube replacement is not rocket science , if they break or get noisy replace them .

 

[Addicted to hifi]

Once in a while i listen to the tweeters and if they exhibit excessive noise its time to change a pre amp tube.
Power amp tubes i never had a problem with , only once 1 failed .
I knew it because the tube lights went out in that particular tube , i changed it and that was that.

Its not a sound quality thing its a noise thing regarding changing tubes ime
I also never bother with expensive NOS tubes anymore .
I just buy cheap new replacements and they work fine .
I have bought NOS before and they exhibited noise very quickly for a high price .
Tube replacement is not rocket science , if they brake or get noisy replace them .

I had an audible illusions 3a preamp and I had lots of problems with the tubes that’s why I went fully solid state.I guess other tube equipment is much more reliable.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Okay i see.

I have had a Graaf pre amp ( no problem) Graaf power amp OTL( which runs hot and i had a tube break quit fast )
Audio research pre amps which worked fine .
Nagra PLP which was not good , flimsy design , noisy.
It was also battery powered which made it completely dynamically constrained / weak sounding .

Zanden 7000 worked fine no problems despite its low power output 8 watts p/ channel

Then the CAT came and changed everything sonically / mechanically .
No problems since and great sound .

 

[germinal]

Regarding dartzeel afaik there is hardly a dealer in NL that carries it .
Probably due to price versus performance ratio .
You know how the dutch are , they dont like to overspend

I think most people who are not hifi junkies like a lot on WBF just like some clean maintenance free good looking boxes in their home which make good music.

I think there is also a status factor in high end audio connected to some brands .
Its for yourself to find out if they actually deliver or are just a mere product of brand pushing / large marketing budgets

Ps it also depends a bit on how low efficiency your speakers are and how low the impedance goes , the harder the tubes have to work the more hot/ stressed they get i reckon
The Mc intosh looks very sturdy/ well constructed

Haha.. yes I know how they are Ah you are almost my neighbour…

well the Dyptiques require some - a lot actually - of power yes.. but I tend to listen around 70db.. so fairly quiet.. sometimes I like to rock aswell..

I watched a review on YouTube and basically they were saying : the mcintosh makes everything sound good, yet there is still alot of detail in the recording..

then I also watched an episode of the audiophiliac on youtube where he was asking the question : what do you want… accuracy or euphonics

I guess I want more of the latter.. cause I don’t think you ll ever be content chasing the former.. not even after having spent 1.000.000 on a system…

In all honesty the DarTZeel is somewhere between pure accuracy and euphonics.. strikes a good balance for sure.

The mcintosh sits maybe a bit more , maybe even close , to the euphonics side.

status factor ? Mm I actually think a novice would say the Mcintosh is way more expensive.. They d see the Dartzeel as a 500 dollar amp..

Does mcintosh have a big Ad budget ? Are they well known outside the hifi world ?

its more that : when there is a manufacturer making stuff costing 100-200k you tend to think they very well know what they are doing.. otherwise who would buy it ? Unless ofcourse people buy it because of the high price…

 

[andromedaaudio]

I guess I want more of the latter.. cause I don’t think you ll ever be content chasing the former.. not even after having spent 1.000.000 on a system…

I m afraid that what is one mans accuracy is the other mans distortion .

I think one should just go with what he/she likes , and not think to deep/ make it to complex .

If everybody would think / hear alike , all amplifier designs would converge into 1 truth and they dont , designers all have their own idea what is best / accurate etc

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Regarding dartzeel afaik there is hardly a dealer in NL that carries it .
Probably due to price versus performance ratio .

a highly subjective statement. we could make the same case for many amps not represented in a singular European country. maybe list the amps that are better than a dart 108 mk2 for less than 50k euros?

my opinion would there are none for my ears. so it delivers the best value at that price point. singular even. that's my subjective viewpoint.

while many can and do relate to a 50k euro list price amp, it's hard to get your head around 190k euro's for the 468's. the idea of value gets lost in the big numbers. yet dart delivers there too if you value what it does. nothing else can do that.

YMMV

 

[germinal]

On a sidenote : Tomorrow I’m
Going to audition the MSB line of DAC’s.. I ll be taking an auralic as reference.. curious to hear - if I can hear it - the difference between a 3k DAC a 15k DAC and 30k Dac

 

[bryans]

On a sidenote : Tomorrow I’m
Going to audition the MSB line of DAC’s.. I ll be taking an auralic as reference.. curious to hear - if I can hear it - the difference between a 3k DAC a 15k DAC and 30k Dac

This should be fun.

 

[andromedaaudio]

On a sidenote : Tomorrow I’m
Going to audition the MSB line of DAC’s.. I ll be taking an auralic as reference.. curious to hear - if I can hear it - the difference between a 3k DAC a 15k DAC and 30k Dac

Great .
Please do us a favour and once you are done test some cables if you can

 

[germinal]

Great .
Please do us a favour and once you are done test some cables if you can

You reckon there won’t be much difference ?

 

[andromedaaudio]

You reckon there won’t be much difference ?

In my opinion no difference as it should be
And if there supposedly is a big difference then there is something wrong with the cables and i would never buy them anyway.

But listen for yourself may be you have a completely different opinion who knows.