DarTZeel and Mcintosh - help in picking amp

[germinal]

Congrats. Please send us some photos. I'm sure not many here have seen the Diptyques in person.

 

[germinal]

Imo such queries contrasting very different components, same with contrasting VDH or Lyra to Koetsu, don't make sense. When some things are very different, either you like one or not. Attributes on a paper don't tell you what one means vs the other. Yes, if two were very close, like one model of Dart vs the other, that could make sense. But Gryphon and dart are just going to make systems sound very different, and one could like one and not the other at all. That should be the only difference.

They indeed sound very different.. Cant recommend the Gryphon with too revealing speakers…
On the other hand the mcintosh and the dart are not worlds apart.. on the contrary.. very very similar

 

[germinal]

Also had one more question.. for people still reading this thread..

Why do I have this subconscious feeling that solid state amps are superior to tube amps ? I also think the average hifi shop sells - out of a 100
amps - 90 solid state amps ? ???

At least the shops I visited it seems that way.

on the other hand I love the look of a tube amp.. and they don’t sound bad at all ??

 

[DasguteOhr]

Also had one more question.. for people still reading this thread..

Why do I have this subconscious feeling that solid state amps are superior to tube amps ? I also think the average hifi shop sells - out of a 100
amps - 90 solid state amps ? ???

At least the shops I visited it seems that way.

on the other hand I love the look of a tube amp.. and they don’t sound bad at all ??

tube amplifiers are actually better suited for electrostats and magnetostats because of the transformer coupling. some solid stage amps do not cope well with large foils (big capacity) tendency to oscillate.
The problem that electro-static loudspeakers usually have a bad efficiency and need a lot of power.
P.S Bryston is a good exsample it doesn't bother them at all

 

[nirodha]

Also had one more question.. for people still reading this thread..

Why do I have this subconscious feeling that solid state amps are superior to tube amps ? I also think the average hifi shop sells - out of a 100
amps - 90 solid state amps ? ???

At least the shops I visited it seems that way.

on the other hand I love the look of a tube amp.. and they don’t sound bad at all ??

On the other hand I hate the look of solid state… and they don’t sound good at all …. Hihi just kidding

 

[andromedaaudio]

I also think the average hifi shop sells - out of a 100
amps - 90 solid state amps ?

Thats because the aftersales troubles are easier i reckon
No broken tube / tube hiss complaints .

May be you like SS more , because your speakers are a bit harder to drive
Or may be not and you just like SS more , nothing wrong with that.

Ps Dont listen to people who try to convert you to SETs / Horns.

 

[microstrip]

IMHO comparing Dartzeel's versus McInstosh must include the preamplfiers. I have onwed and hosted several Dartzeel's and found that the power amplifiers needed the NHB18 preamplifier to show their best. Contrary to the old usual practice in the high end - tube preamplifier with solid state power amplifier, that is many times successful - in the long term I did not like tube preamplifiers with DartZeel power amplifier. Just MHO, YMMV.

 

[bonzo75]

This is true, Dartzeel needs that transparency and the preamp is relatively passive compared to an active valve preamp like AR, for example.

Personally am no more an advocate of valve preamp into SS power amps. The reverse works better, and in some cases just use the SS preamp for the SS power amp with tubes in the source

 

[dcc]

IMHO comparing Dartzeel's versus McInstosh must include the preamplfiers. I have onwed and hosted several Dartzeel's and found that the power amplifiers needed the NHB18 preamplifier to show their best. Contrary to the old usual practice in the high end - tube preamplifier with solid state power amplifier, that is many times successful - in the long term I did not like tube preamplifiers with DartZeel power amplifier. Just MHO, YMMV.

Hervé was at my place several days ago to demo the NHB 468 and we paired them with my tube Thrax Libra preamp. Even himself recognised that the pairing was fabulous. He had the darTZeel NHB 18 preamp with him but we did not bother hooking it to the system.

 

[andromedaaudio]

IMHO comparing Dartzeel's versus McInstosh must include the preamplfiers. I have onwed and hosted several Dartzeel's and found that the power amplifiers needed the NHB18 preamplifier to show their best. Contrary to the old usual practice in the high end - tube preamplifier with solid state power amplifier, that is many times successful - in the long term I did not like tube preamplifiers with DartZeel power amplifier. Just MHO, YMMV.

Afaik he is looking for / compared only integrated amplifiers.
A nice good simple system

 

[microstrip]

Afaik he is looking for / compared only integrated amplifiers.
A nice good simple system

Thanks, I see you are correct. However the thread also turned to the power amplifiers, that sound very different from the CH8550. BTW, I do not have experience with the new CH8550 mk2, but still use the original CH8550 in very hots days when I do not want to have two 400 watt tube heaters in the room.

Anyway the current price of the CH8550 with phono in Europe that pays VAT is around 33k, something that rules it out in a 40k system. Although I have not heard about the brand for some time , for such system I would also consider the great sounding Ayre AX5 Twenty.

 

[microstrip]

Hervé was at my place several days ago to demo the NHB 468 and we paired them with my tube Thrax Libra preamp. Even himself recognised that the pairing was fabulous. He had the darTZeel NHB 18 preamp with him but we did not bother hooking it to the system.

Your excellent preamplifier is not a typical tune preamplfier - it is complex design, emulating some aspects of solid state preamplifiers, such as balanced DC-coupled input and output. In fact, the only other tube preamplfier with these caracteristics I can remember immediately is the Atmasphere MP1.

Anyway , it would have been great if you carried the comparison.

 

[DasguteOhr]

the amplifiers have poor readings, but it doesn't matter, it used to be the same with MF David and sounded super good.

 

[germinal]

Thanks, I see you are correct. However the thread also turned to the power amplifiers, that sound very different from the CH8550. BTW, I do not have experience with the new CH8550 mk2, but still use the original CH8550 in very hots days when I do not want to have two 400 watt tube heaters in the room.

Anyway the current price of the CH8550 with phono in Europe that pays VAT is around 33k, something that rules it out in a 40k system. Although I have not heard about the brand for some time , for such system I would also consider the great sounding Ayre AX5 Twenty.

Actually I can have the demo 8550 mk2 from the store for 19k ( including phono) so that seems almost like a steal.. coupled with 12k speakers keeps it within budget.. ( below 40k )

On the other hand.. how can a company reasonably explain a 10k increase in price for the same product ?? From 23k to 33k!

 

[germinal]

Afaik he is looking for / compared only integrated amplifiers.
A nice good simple system

indeed.. the seperates from dartzeel are out of budget… I could have demo’s them in the store but I ve come to learn not to demo something I can’t afford.

with mcintosh you can have seperates ( C8 and MC1502 for less than 20k ) but I can’t shake the feeling that mcintosh is like the Volkswagen of the hifi world ? Ofcourse there’s nothing wrong with a VW

 

[microstrip]

Actually I can have the demo 8550 mk2 from the store for 19k ( including phono) so that seems almost like a steal.. coupled with 12k speakers keeps it within budget.. ( below 40k )

On the other hand.. how can a company reasonably explain a 10k increase in price for the same product ?? From 23k to 33k!

Such values completely change the situation - I would immediately get it and start thinking about the speakers. In my experience the CH8550 can drive almost anything pretty well, even the SoundLabs A1 Px that are very inefficient and a terrible load.

 

[Carlos269]

Such values completely change the situation - I would immediately get it and start thinking about the speakers. In my experience the CH8550 can drive almost anything pretty well, even the SoundLabs A1 Px that are very inefficient and a terrible load.

I think that he has been clear that he likes the sound of the McIntosh better. And it is also at a quarter of the cost of the Dartzeel. Content deleted - Personal attacks are not tolerated on this board.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

very beautiful system.what brand are the speakers?

 

[germinal]

I think that he has been clear that he likes the sound of the McIntosh better. And it is also at a quarter of the cost of the Dartzeel. Content deleted - Personal attacks are not tolerated on this board.

What you re saying is : Dartzeel is more of a "snobbish" thing.. like Aston Martin compared to Porsche (in this case Mcintosh) I like your signature btw

It's just really hard when you are building your first system to make the right choice.. whatever that may be..

In this case I like the looks of the 1502 more than the looks of the DarTZeel.. I know you don't hear looks but when I really really had to do my beast to hear a difference.. then I guess it's too close to call on a sonic level...resale value also comes into play..

I can get the DarTZeel considerably cheaper than MSRP (19 instead of 33k) but I don't think there are many dartzeel buyers on the used market whereas mcintosh I guess will be easier to sell.. except I do need to pay MSRP..



vs

 

[germinal]

very beautiful system.what brand are the speakers?

thx

Diptyque

DP-160

but their 107 is most beautiful imho

the number stands for the length of the speaker in cm.