Munich show 2023 Hifideluxe and MOC .

[andromedaaudio]

I thought Clarisys and Alsyvox were both very good sounding panels.
But i d rather hear them with tubes like VAC or Jadis i think.
Tubes take the sharp edges of ( or may be i m just a biased tube lover)

Bayz audio with VAC produced some of the best vocal rendition i heard..
Gotto love KT 88 s

VAC 170 IQ is a stunning integrated amp .
Makes you wonder why you should spend more on amplifiers

I didnt hear diptyque this year as i skipped the whole ground floor.

 

[beaur]

And what happens to those that hear the horns and still dont agree??

Well, from this horn guy, nothing but a request to come over and discuss our mutual differences over a decent beverage and some excellent background music. While horns hit my receptors in all the right places, I can definitely sit and listen to other approaches without worrying about which one is better.

Beau

 

[andromedaaudio]

Well, from this horn guy, nothing but a request to come over and discuss our mutual differences over a decent beverage and some excellent background music. While horns hit my receptors in all the right places, I can definitely sit and listen to other approaches without worrying about which one is better.

Beau

.

Thanks for the offer .

But i too admire diversity, im not looking for agreement / convergence.
It would also make Munchen a very boring show to visit if everybody/ incl designers liked the same stuff.


Lets appreciate diversity instead of trying to convert the other side like u say as well

 

[morricab]

I thought Clarisys and Alsyvox were both very good sounding panels.
But i d rather hear them with tubes like VAC or Jadis i think.
Tubes take the sharp edges of ( or may be i m just a biased tube lover)

Bayz audio with VAC produced some of the best vocal rendition i heard..
Gotto love KT 88 s

VAC 170 IQ is a stunning integrated amp .
Makes you wonder why you should spend more on amplifiers

I didnt hear diptyque this year as i skipped the whole ground floor.

For me, sharp edges are an immediate red flag and unfortunately they both had too much of that...

 

[bonzo75]

Sharp edges at shows are often just a set up thing

 

[morricab]

They didn't convince me last year and the same this year. Offering great resolution they did't offer the power and body of real music so the presentation was rather artificial to me, not my cup of tea.

Matt

That is a typical complaint that non-planar guys level at planar speakers... it either bothers you or it doesn't. There was plenty of bass from the speakers but you don't feel it in your guts the same way you would with a big box woofer.

 

[morricab]

Sharp edges at shows are often just a set up thing

I didn't see anything wrong with the setup of either speaker...both teams know how to set up planars...

 

[Mike Lavigne]

You see them Shane?

 

[Rexp]

My final show preference...top 10 rooms:

1) Aries Cerat. Most realism in a system of still "fit in your home" size.
2) Acapella but you needed to sit in the first couple of rows...further back was far less appealing
3) Cessaro with Opus 1 + subwoofer: However, the big system was not very good...no idea what the issue is.
4) TotalDAC. Maybe some rooms sounded better in some ways but the sound was clean, fresh, well balanced and dynamic. Good value by show standards
5) WE room with Silbatone. Not quite as good as some past years and somewhat uneven but unrivaled dynamics and emotion
6) Sigma Acoustics with CanEver eletronics and a big TT. Really lovely and dynamic sound...best system with no horn driver of any kind
7) Grandinote. This was the best under 50K system at the show IMO. 98dB speakers with compression/horn tweeter and Magnetosoild amps
8) Living Voice. Very good sound but perhaps not great value for the speakers (52K). I think the system could have benefited from having more than 8 watts of 300B power on tap as you could hear the strain when it got loud.
9) Diptyque. Best sounding panels at the show, IMO. More coherent, tonally balanced than others. Being in a smaller room probably helped in this case. Was very good last year as well.
10) Kawero! + Ypsilon. Most dynamic non-horn system. Last year had too much zing in the tweeter but this year it was yummy.

Honorable mention:

Von Schweikert/VAC. Very dynamic for a non-horn system and extremely resolving. However, was not very forgiving of lesser recordings
ESD Acoustics: Bombastic in the same way a Buggatti Veyron is for cars. Loved the ambition and scale but for anything other than big classical it sounded overblown.
Tidal: Didn't hear the Buggatti model but their other bigger model was quite warm and natural sounding even with SS amps
Voxativ: Often I don't like the highs of whizzer coned drivers but they had a new black coned driver that sounded very good with midbass coupler and dipole sub...
Fleetwood Sound: Lively and fun but a bit raw sounding at times
Diesis Audio: in a much bigger room this year and it didn't really work as well as the past few shows. Still lovely sound but lacked some impact this time
Soundspacesystems: Funky, high sensitivity speakers that were a lot of fun...but way overpriced IMO.
Odeon + New Audio Frontiers: Was great when they picked good music...which wasn't that often.
Jadis + Davis Acoustics. Prototype speaker was good fun and lively...Jadis has lovely voicing.
Thrax: Great sounding monitors and all 300B preamp/amp chain.
WLM: Small two-way speakers were a real surprise for reasonable money
Marco Serri design: Crazy stuff with an appealing an lively sound...perhaps not completely worked out designs but a lot of fun.


Almost but not quite:
Boenicke Audio: Had it's moments but overall seemed a bit uneven
Marten: All rooms. Speakers had strong bass in both rooms and overly soft upper ranges.
Wilson/Nagra: Had considerable strengths but just doesn't sound realistic
Wilson/VTL: same as above
WE with new (as of last year) speaker
Avantgarde.Duo GT..something about them with SS amps just leaves me cold.
hORNs: Didn't really gel for me
Goebel + CH + WADAX/Kronos: With Kronos it would almost have made the honorable mention list but I think CH holds it back. With WADAX, no thanks. The whole system was significantly better last year with True Life Audio amplification, IMO
MBL: Always a "not quite" for me because of the metallic nature of the overall sound I always hear...strengths are clear but i guess not everyone hears the weaknesses.
Bayz: Could hear the "pipe" overlaying the sound...otherwise nice boxless sound.
Stenheim + Dartzeel... a bit "meh" but basically ok
Rockport + Absolare: not sure what the fuss is about...ok hifi sound.
Brodmann + Viola and crazy Zensati cables; Interesting and almost made honorable mention

Fails:
Wilson + CH...ummm...bad
Kharma room....ummm....really bad
Kharma + Robert Koda + Wadax (?)....umm...really really bad
Wolf Von Langa + Air Tight: Very thin sounding
Clarisys + Soulution (would like to hear them with something less analytical) very cold and analytical sounding
Alsyvox + Pilium: (last year lacked dynamics with Jadis and this year lacked soul and coherence with Pilium). Liked their sound a lot in 2018 and 2019 but not since they came with the big speakers at the big show. This is perhaps not quite a fail but after great demos in the past the last two years have been a big letdown.


Lot's of other rooms that left no impression on me at all.

Gotta admire your stamina!
Of those I find the Grandinote most interesting. Hadn't been on my radar until this show.

 

[PeterA]

Sharp edges at shows are often just a set up thing

Maybe, but Andro seems to like that sound. Or he heard it differently than did Brad.

 

[bonzo75]

Maybe, but Andro seems to like that sound. Or he heard it differently than did Brad.

I was not referring to difference between Brad and Andro's comments, just in general sharp edges can often be set up issues. I would be surprised if anyone likes sharp edges. I can understand not wanting rolled off, but not rolled off is not necessarily sharp. It would be very easy to get either one

 

[morricab]

Gotta admire your stamina!
Of those I find the Grandinote most interesting. Hadn't been on my radar until this show.

Add to that, this huge speaker was "only" 24K, comparably cheaper then even a lot of bookshelf speakers. At 98dB, needless to say SET friendly if you don't want a Grandinote amp, which was actually quite good and not bad value at 14.5K. That said, the TotalDAC speaker as 23K with same sensitivity. Both were relatively good value at the show where speakers in excess of 50K were everywhere and in excess of 100K quite common.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Maybe, but Andro seems to like that sound. Or he heard it differently than did Brad.

This year they were demonstratimg with soulution / pilium.
I said i probably would rather hear them with either VAC or Jadis as tubes makes the top end sound less sharp.

 

[PeterA]

I thought Clarisys and Alsyvox were both very good sounding panels.
But i d rather hear them with tubes like VAC or Jadis i think.
Tubes take the sharp edges of ( or may be i m just a biased tube lover)

Sounds to me like you enjoyed these two speakers/rooms writing “ both very good sounding panels”. I understand you like tubes. Kedar were saying it could’ve been set up. I don’t know if he meant amplifier matching. Brad did not like these rooms per his report. I agree there’s usually room for improvement.

By sharp edges, are you talking about imaging outlines so prevalent in many presentations or transients, the leading edge?

 

[andromedaaudio]

Sounds to me like you enjoyed these two speakers/rooms writing “ both very good sounding panels”. I understand you like tubes. Kedar were saying it could’ve been set up. I don’t know if he meant amplifier matching. Brad did not like these rooms per his report. I agree there’s usually room for improvement.

By sharp edges, are you talking about imaging outlines so prevalent in many presentations or transients, the leading edge?

Just high freq rendition in general

 

[orfeo_monteverdi]

[please forgive my poor English]

The Wilson & D'Agostino you were talking upwards: is it in this room (white and blue Wilson speakers) that they demo'ed the set?
Or is this room only a static display, and the demos occured elsewhere?

This video is just frightening to me: it is a terrible mess, full of noise and static displays. I know the two first days are business days, but still...

The author (Audiophile Junkie) mentions:
- a lot of distributor-only events
- a lot of press-only events
- a lot of static displays
Was he in the "wrong room"? Or is it indeed the right Wilson & D'Agostino listening room?

I also may have picked the worst possible video to evaluate the question should I come to Munich 2024?

 

[AudioLibertarian]

My final show preference...top 10 rooms:

1) Aries Cerat. Most realism in a system of still "fit in your home" size.
2) Acapella but you needed to sit in the first couple of rows...further back was far less appealing
3) Cessaro with Opus 1 + subwoofer: However, the big system was not very good...no idea what the issue is.
4) TotalDAC. Maybe some rooms sounded better in some ways but the sound was clean, fresh, well balanced and dynamic. Good value by show standards
5) WE room with Silbatone. Not quite as good as some past years and somewhat uneven but unrivaled dynamics and emotion
6) Sigma Acoustics with CanEver eletronics and a big TT. Really lovely and dynamic sound...best system with no horn driver of any kind
7) Grandinote. This was the best under 50K system at the show IMO. 98dB speakers with compression/horn tweeter and Magnetosoild amps
8) Living Voice. Very good sound but perhaps not great value for the speakers (52K). I think the system could have benefited from having more than 8 watts of 300B power on tap as you could hear the strain when it got loud.
9) Diptyque. Best sounding panels at the show, IMO. More coherent, tonally balanced than others. Being in a smaller room probably helped in this case. Was very good last year as well.
10) Kawero! + Ypsilon. Most dynamic non-horn system. Last year had too much zing in the tweeter but this year it was yummy.

Honorable mention:

Von Schweikert/VAC. Very dynamic for a non-horn system and extremely resolving. However, was not very forgiving of lesser recordings
ESD Acoustics: Bombastic in the same way a Buggatti Veyron is for cars. Loved the ambition and scale but for anything other than big classical it sounded overblown.
Tidal: Didn't hear the Buggatti model but their other bigger model was quite warm and natural sounding even with SS amps
Voxativ: Often I don't like the highs of whizzer coned drivers but they had a new black coned driver that sounded very good with midbass coupler and dipole sub...
Fleetwood Sound: Lively and fun but a bit raw sounding at times
Diesis Audio: in a much bigger room this year and it didn't really work as well as the past few shows. Still lovely sound but lacked some impact this time
Soundspacesystems: Funky, high sensitivity speakers that were a lot of fun...but way overpriced IMO.
Odeon + New Audio Frontiers: Was great when they picked good music...which wasn't that often.
Jadis + Davis Acoustics. Prototype speaker was good fun and lively...Jadis has lovely voicing.
Thrax: Great sounding monitors and all 300B preamp/amp chain.
WLM: Small two-way speakers were a real surprise for reasonable money
Marco Serri design: Crazy stuff with an appealing an lively sound...perhaps not completely worked out designs but a lot of fun.


Almost but not quite:
Boenicke Audio: Had it's moments but overall seemed a bit uneven
Marten: All rooms. Speakers had strong bass in both rooms and overly soft upper ranges.
Wilson/Nagra: Had considerable strengths but just doesn't sound realistic
Wilson/VTL: same as above
WE with new (as of last year) speaker
Avantgarde.Duo GT..something about them with SS amps just leaves me cold.
hORNs: Didn't really gel for me
Goebel + CH + WADAX/Kronos: With Kronos it would almost have made the honorable mention list but I think CH holds it back. With WADAX, no thanks. The whole system was significantly better last year with True Life Audio amplification, IMO
MBL: Always a "not quite" for me because of the metallic nature of the overall sound I always hear...strengths are clear but i guess not everyone hears the weaknesses.
Bayz: Could hear the "pipe" overlaying the sound...otherwise nice boxless sound.
Stenheim + Dartzeel... a bit "meh" but basically ok
Rockport + Absolare: not sure what the fuss is about...ok hifi sound.
Brodmann + Viola and crazy Zensati cables; Interesting and almost made honorable mention

Fails:
Wilson + CH...ummm...bad
Kharma room....ummm....really bad
Kharma + Robert Koda + Wadax (?)....umm...really really bad
Wolf Von Langa + Air Tight: Very thin sounding
Clarisys + Soulution (would like to hear them with something less analytical) very cold and analytical sounding
Alsyvox + Pilium: (last year lacked dynamics with Jadis and this year lacked soul and coherence with Pilium). Liked their sound a lot in 2018 and 2019 but not since they came with the big speakers at the big show. This is perhaps not quite a fail but after great demos in the past the last two years have been a big letdown.


Lot's of other rooms that left no impression on me at all.

Just out of curiosity: how would you compare your Dynamikks Athos 10 to some of your favorites from the show? Dynamikks had chosen not to exhibit at the Munich sadly, was hoping to hear their flagship ATHOS model, but alas, not to be....

 

[andromedaaudio]

Wilson and d agostino were demonstrating in multiple rooms / set ups
This is off course a open set up , which is kinda difficult to get a good sound
It all looked nice though.

Everybody should come to Munich 2024 , it is a better buying guideline then reading 150.000 reviews

 

[andromedaaudio]

[please forgive my poor English]

The Wilson & D'Agostino you were talking upwards: is it in this room (white and blue Wilson speakers) that they demo'ed the set?
Or is this room only a static display, and the demos occured elsewhere?

This video is just frightening to me: it is a terrible mess, full of noise and static displays. I know the two first days are business days, but still...

The author (Audiophile Junkie) mentions:
- a lot of distributor-only events
- a lot of press-only events
- a lot of static displays
Was he in the "wrong room"? Or is it indeed the right Wilson & D'Agostino listening room?

I also may have picked the worst possible video to evaluate the question should I come to Munich 2024?

I watched his vid ,what he is describing is basically the only open floor plan hall on the 2 upper floors where multiple brands are mixed together and some with sound and some only on static display .

The ground floor in munich is basically everything mixed together.
The 2 Atrium floors are all seperate rooms with one amp / one Ls brand .

He is giving you the wrong impression

 

[Rhapsody]

My final show preference...top 10 rooms:

1) Aries Cerat. Most realism in a system of still "fit in your home" size.
2) Acapella but you needed to sit in the first couple of rows...further back was far less appealing
3) Cessaro with Opus 1 + subwoofer: However, the big system was not very good...no idea what the issue is.
4) TotalDAC. Maybe some rooms sounded better in some ways but the sound was clean, fresh, well balanced and dynamic. Good value by show standards
5) WE room with Silbatone. Not quite as good as some past years and somewhat uneven but unrivaled dynamics and emotion
6) Sigma Acoustics with CanEver eletronics and a big TT. Really lovely and dynamic sound...best system with no horn driver of any kind
7) Grandinote. This was the best under 50K system at the show IMO. 98dB speakers with compression/horn tweeter and Magnetosoild amps
8) Living Voice. Very good sound but perhaps not great value for the speakers (52K). I think the system could have benefited from having more than 8 watts of 300B power on tap as you could hear the strain when it got loud.
9) Diptyque. Best sounding panels at the show, IMO. More coherent, tonally balanced than others. Being in a smaller room probably helped in this case. Was very good last year as well.
10) Kawero! + Ypsilon. Most dynamic non-horn system. Last year had too much zing in the tweeter but this year it was yummy.

Honorable mention:

Von Schweikert/VAC. Very dynamic for a non-horn system and extremely resolving. However, was not very forgiving of lesser recordings
ESD Acoustics: Bombastic in the same way a Buggatti Veyron is for cars. Loved the ambition and scale but for anything other than big classical it sounded overblown.
Tidal: Didn't hear the Buggatti model but their other bigger model was quite warm and natural sounding even with SS amps
Voxativ: Often I don't like the highs of whizzer coned drivers but they had a new black coned driver that sounded very good with midbass coupler and dipole sub...
Fleetwood Sound: Lively and fun but a bit raw sounding at times
Diesis Audio: in a much bigger room this year and it didn't really work as well as the past few shows. Still lovely sound but lacked some impact this time
Soundspacesystems: Funky, high sensitivity speakers that were a lot of fun...but way overpriced IMO.
Odeon + New Audio Frontiers: Was great when they picked good music...which wasn't that often.
Jadis + Davis Acoustics. Prototype speaker was good fun and lively...Jadis has lovely voicing.
Thrax: Great sounding monitors and all 300B preamp/amp chain.
WLM: Small two-way speakers were a real surprise for reasonable money
Marco Serri design: Crazy stuff with an appealing an lively sound...perhaps not completely worked out designs but a lot of fun.


Almost but not quite:
Boenicke Audio: Had it's moments but overall seemed a bit uneven
Marten: All rooms. Speakers had strong bass in both rooms and overly soft upper ranges.
Wilson/Nagra: Had considerable strengths but just doesn't sound realistic
Wilson/VTL: same as above
WE with new (as of last year) speaker
Avantgarde.Duo GT..something about them with SS amps just leaves me cold.
hORNs: Didn't really gel for me
Goebel + CH + WADAX/Kronos: With Kronos it would almost have made the honorable mention list but I think CH holds it back. With WADAX, no thanks. The whole system was significantly better last year with True Life Audio amplification, IMO
MBL: Always a "not quite" for me because of the metallic nature of the overall sound I always hear...strengths are clear but i guess not everyone hears the weaknesses.
Bayz: Could hear the "pipe" overlaying the sound...otherwise nice boxless sound.
Stenheim + Dartzeel... a bit "meh" but basically ok
Rockport + Absolare: not sure what the fuss is about...ok hifi sound.
Brodmann + Viola and crazy Zensati cables; Interesting and almost made honorable mention

Fails:
Wilson + CH...ummm...bad
Kharma room....ummm....really bad
Kharma + Robert Koda + Wadax (?)....umm...really really bad
Wolf Von Langa + Air Tight: Very thin sounding
Clarisys + Soulution (would like to hear them with something less analytical) very cold and analytical sounding
Alsyvox + Pilium: (last year lacked dynamics with Jadis and this year lacked soul and coherence with Pilium). Liked their sound a lot in 2018 and 2019 but not since they came with the big speakers at the big show. This is perhaps not quite a fail but after great demos in the past the last two years have been a big letdown.


Lot's of other rooms that left no impression on me at all.

Not a problem for Taiko, Pilium or Alsyvox regarding your analysis of our room. We will all be showing together next year at Munich 2024. We (Taiko, Pilium and Alsyvox) were very pleased with the sound that we got with this combination. Hundreds of visitors loved the sound and several press reviews have already echoed the majority of visitors experience.

I did the disc-jockeying and I must have had at least 100 and I think many more come to me and shake my hand and literally adoring the sound. People don't do that if there are any issues.

Here is link from Enjoy the Music, where we do NOT advertise giving the Alsvyox room second to only the Western Electric room. Again, you didn't like it, but they surely did. www.enjoythemusic.com/HIGH_END_2023/Chowkwanyun/Saturday/

I can go back through this thread and dig up four or five other visitors opinions saying that the Alsvyox room was their favorite room, but why bother.

You can always run tubes if you want to soften the sound, we REALLY like the sound the way that it was presented during the show. But that is our taste and not yours, so no big deal. We like it, you don't. The good thing for us is that we sold at least one pair of speakers at the show and I think one more coming as well, not sure if it will be Rafaello or Caravaggios yet.

To each their own and for those that did and do like "our sound" come and see us in 2024. We enjoyed seeing all of the visitors that visited our room and loved that we had a packed room for pretty much every hour of the show.