What is going to be your endgame speaker?

[thomask]

Fun videos. From the videos, would certainly vote for the Lansches particularly if you find their sub-90hz performance as good if not better given your setup. Will be inteesting to hear the tracks with the Altecs when you go back.

Although Lansche may sound more refined, Scaena give more 3 D sound with wider soundstage.

I can enjoy Leornard Cohen through Scaena.

 

[LL21]

Although Lansche may sound more refined, Scaena give more 3 D sound with wider soundstage.

I can enjoy Leornard Cohen through Scaena.

Is the Scaena's wider soundstage not at least partly because they are also much further apart?

 

[thomask]

Is the Scaena's wider soundstage not at least partly because they are also much further apart?

Hard to tell.

You may not want to place box speaker close to side wall or window.

But Scaena line array has no problem close to side walls since there is no box and each mid unit is enclosed separately in unique shape.

 

[LL21]

Always admired the Scaena design concept. I have seen 2 owners go from big Scaena to either Focal Grand Utopia or to Wilson Alexx V. Do you prefer your big Altecs to Scaena and Lansche?

 

[thomask]

Always admired the Scaena design concept. I have seen 2 owners go from big Scaena to either Focal Grand Utopia or to Wilson Alexx V. Do you prefer your big Altecs to Scaena and Lansche?

Overall Scaena and Lansche are toss up.

Altec a7 is an odd ball.

It can sound like vintage wine.

The weakeness of Scaena is its subwoofers which does not go down to 20 hz.

After having pair of Rel 31s, I could be happy with Scaena.

But without Rel 31s, I would not be happy with Scaena either.

 

[LL21]

Overall Scaena and Lansche are toss up.

Altec a7 is an odd ball.

The weakeness of Scaena is its subwoofers which does not go down to 20 hz.

After having pair of Rel 31s, I could be happy with Scaena.

But without Rel 31s, I would not be happy with Scaena either.

Sounds like REL31 is a 'must have' in your system. In our case, the Velodyne DD18+ plays a similar role...have had a Velodyne in each system since 1995.

 

[thomask]

Sounds like REL31 is a 'must have' in your system. In our case, the Velodyne DD18+ plays a similar role...have had a Velodyne in each system since 1995.

Rel 31 is a must have for Lansche too.

 

[LL21]

Yes, that is what I was thinking from your descriptions. I do like what Velodyne has done with every system...even as the crossover point has lowered with each subsequent generation (now somewhere below 38-39hz). Mains run full-range in parallel, but the Sub coming in underneath at this level.

 

[gleeds]

My endgame speakers right now are the Von Schweikert Ultra 7's combined with their latest Shockwave subwoofers. Everything you could ask for in a beautifully built, relatable and easy to drive package. Not cheap at roughly $220k but I'm not aware of any speaker at its size and price that can top them. Perhaps the Tidal Akira with REL subs or something from the Zellaton Klassik line, also with subs.

 

[thomask]

My endgame speakers right now are the Von Schweikert Ultra 7's combined with their latest Shockwave subwoofers. Everything you could ask for in a beautifully built, relatable and easy to drive package. Not cheap at roughly $220k but I'm not aware of any speaker at its size and price that can top them. Perhaps the Tidal Akira with REL subs or something from the Zellaton Klassik line, also with subs.

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View attachment 117345

I had listened to Von Schweikert Ultra and Børresen's M6 at Pacific Audiofest 2023.

Both of them are nice speakers with no weakness.

But Scaena give very lifelike placement of each instrument with deep and wide soundstage.

Thus I felt no strong motivation to switch from Scaena to Von Schweikert Ultra or Børresen's M6.

Audio is a subjective hobby.

But I agree with you that Von Schweikert Ultra could be an end game speaker.

 

[gleeds]

thomask, I have not heard the Scanea in a while but recall them to be an terrific design with the noted exceptional sound staging.

 

[thomask]

Just side note,

I got Puritan 156 10 days ago.

It really improved bass and reduced hash to make my system more musical.

That is the best bang for the money.

You may want to try that.

 

[asb]

Discussion stopped one week ago .. Define "end game speaker".

Of course the first meaning would be the best one you can imagine
and / or afford and be satisfied for the rest of your life, but experience
tells us that a speaker (or any other component) like this does not exist.

For my contemporary home the Klangfilm Bionor has been proven to
be the "end game" for now, but still there is a possible step beyond,
Klangfilm Euronor Junior, dream speaker that I know of only one or
two pairs exist world wide ..

My personal end game will be in the retirement home and so the
restrictions will be completely different. If you want to know the
perfect system for a place like this with 20 square meters or less -
I can tell you.

 

[thomask]

Discussion stopped one week ago .. Define "end game speaker".

Of course the first meaning would be the best one you can imagine
and / or afford and be satisfied for the rest of your life, but experience
tells us that a speaker (or any other component) like this does not exist.

For my contemporary home the Klangfilm Bionor has been proven to
be the "end game" for now, but still there is a possible step beyond,
Klangfilm Euronor Junior, dream speaker that I know of only one or
two pairs exist world wide ..

My personal end game will be in the retirement home and so the
restrictions will be completely different. If you want to know the
perfect system for a place like this with 20 square meters or less -
I can tell you.

It sounds nice!

 

[Another Johnson]

I don’t think anyone really knows what their end game will be. Any speaker you choose will likely be surpassed by new offerings within at most a decade. Not one of us knows how close we are to our actual “end.”

As long as you’re alive, you can aspire to your next speaker upgrade. A 60 year old who buys for an end game, and then lives to 90, might find that another choice or two would be fun to make during those last thirty years.

 

[bonzo75]

I don’t think anyone really knows what their end game will be. Any speaker you choose will likely be surpassed by new offerings within at most a decade. Not one of us knows how close we are to our actual “end.”

As long as you’re alive, you can aspire to your next speaker upgrade. A 60 year old who buys for an end game, and then lives to 90, might find that another choice or two would be fun to make during those last thirty years.

this assumes he found his end game speaker at 60. If he found it when he was 40 and bought it when he was 60, chances are if he hasn’t found anything new in those 20, he might not in the next 30

 

[asb]

Why does ThomasK show a video of replicated speakers ?

 

[Another Johnson]

this assumes he found his end game speaker at 60. If he found it when he was 40 and bought it when he was 60, chances are if he hasn’t found anything new in those 20, he might not in the next 30

But during those 50 years, his end game speakers will be marching toward their own end game as the caps in the crossover die, the suspensions degrade, and advances are made in driver materials and manufacturing.

Of course the Quad ESL57 and its modern era support “network” suggest it can be done. I’m not in that camp. But I don’t begrudge another’s choice to be there.

I’ve enjoyed owning many speakers over many decades. Aside from marital fidelity, I would be hard pressed to commit to an end game of anything as early as age 40.

 

[bonzo75]

But during those 50 years, his end game speakers will be marching toward their own end game as the caps in the crossover die, the suspensions degrade, and advances are made in driver materials and manufacturing.

Of course the Quad ESL57 and its modern era support “network” suggest it can be done. I’m not in that camp. But I don’t begrudge another’s choice to be there.

I’ve enjoyed owning many speakers over many decades. Aside from marital fidelity, I would be hard pressed to commit to an end game of anything as early as age 40.

Let's not confuse material refurbishment vs changing due to changed sound preferences.

 

[Another Johnson]

Let's not confuse material refurbishment vs changing due to changed sound preferences.

It’s not confusing to me, but it is certainly a reality to us both. It is a simple fact that speakers do require maintenance if you keep them long enough, and this maintenance is neither easy, nor inexpensive, in its own rite.

If your end game is that someone will be supporting your speakers for another five decades, the probability is 95% against. Linn are the only company that has supported anything for five decades, and even then only the LP12. Ask them to refresh a pair of their 35 year old speakers. Maybe they will, but then why would anyone want a 35 year old pair of Linn speakers except for the nostalgia?

Maybe Paul Klipsch horns are another product with lengthy factory support. And Klipsch corner horns were certainly an end game speaker for many 50 years ago.