Ron’s New System

[Ron Resnick]

Ron, Perhaps you don’t understand the design of my loudspeakers. They are meant to go into the corners. It is an integral part of the design.

Yes, I understand this well.

That is not a compromise and I actually think it’s an advantage for a number of reasons.

I understand that for you corner placement is an advantage, not a compromise. For me and for many people it would be a compromise.

I hold up my speakers and amp pairing as not compromised and not involving tradeoffs in the sense you are using to describe your situation and to solicit advice.

I agree that the pairing of your speakers and amp is not compromised and is a wonderful synergy.

The discussion was about matching an amplifier to speakers as being inevitably a compromise between different trade-offs.

Al and I should have excluded from the compromise point about amp/speaker pairing speakers which are extremely sensitive and can be driven by virtually any amplifier.

 

[morricab]

YesI understand this well.

I understand that for you
corner placement is an advantage, not a compromise.



I agree that the pairing of your speakers and amp is not compromised and is a wonderful synergy.


We should have excluded from the compromise point about amp/speaker pairing speakers which are extremely sensitive and can be driven by virtually any amplifier.

There are a pair of NAT Transmitters for sale here in Switzerland for <8k for the pair…something to consider…apparently they sound good but I haven’t heard this model.

 

[Ron Resnick]

There are a pair of NAT Transmitters for sale here in Switzerland for <8k for the pair…something to consider…apparently they sound good but I haven’t heard this model.

Thank you but I am now focusing on Wavac 833. Please let me know if you know of a pair for sale.

By the way, I'm not clear of the differences between Wavac HE-833V2 and HE-833Mk.II -- a bit confusing.

What is your experience with Wavac 833?

 

[PeterA]

YesI understand this well.

I understand that for you
corner placement is an advantage, not a compromise.



I agree that the pairing of your speakers and amp is not compromised and is a wonderful synergy.


We should have excluded from the compromise point about amp/speaker pairing speakers which are extremely sensitive and can be driven by virtually any amplifier.

Thank you Ron. This is one of the clear advantages of easy to drive speakers. I had often expressed hope that Magico would design a speaker that was much easier to drive.

I also would take this position further and say that there are other pairing in the hobby that do not involve compromises and trade-offs. I suspect Kedar has a few cartridge/arm pairings that he feels are not compromised. There are amp/preamp pairings that do not seem compromised.

On the other hand, there will always be those who say "Nothing is perfect". I suppose in that sense, those folks could argue that everything about the hobby is therefore compromised. I want to get away from the theoretical or philosophical, and back to where this all began: your amp/speaker pairing, and now I suppose your cartridge/tonearm pairings. I do really feel it is possible to find pairings and components that do not compel one to choose between trade-offs. Shortlists should be about choosing between positives, not negatives, which solution gets you closest to your goal. At your level, it should all be about good choices.

I am happy for you that you are enjoying your new Brinkmann and Reed so much. Perhaps the inevitable compromises are just not so inevitable.

 

[marty]

Marty can explain why he believes that the 5T is literally unique in the tonearm world (finding it theoretically superior to air bearing linear-trackers because, I believe, of the way the grooves pull the needle across the record, putting differential pressure on the cantilever).

Ron, I'm not sure if the 5T is truly unique since I don't know of all the linear/radial trackers out there. i can tell you I chose it specifically because it does not work by having the needle movement drive the arm movement as do many linear trackers. Rather it is similar to the Goldmund T3F I used for 30 years as both operate by a servo assisted motor to move the arm. It is not only ingenious engineering, but the sound is extraordinary. Once you hear the way it performs sonically in rendering the same character of sound from the beginning of the LP to the end, you will understand why I keep saying pivoted tonearms should be abandoned as they are riddled with tracking distortion that is nominal only at 2 points of the LP. Furthermore, pivoted tonearms mandate anti-skate corrections that are non-linear and vary across the entire LP surface (see post #658 https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/alexx-v-arrive-in-nj.32990/page-33#post-816924).

In short, pivoted arms induce distortion plain and simple and you cannot escape that fact. With a linear tracker, gone is the notion of trying to optimize tracking distortion at specific points such as the end of a side using Baerwald or Loefgren alignments which are band-aids that are no longer necessary for the self-inflicted physical limitations of pivoted arms. Of course, the resultant sound of any tonearm depends on many factors i.e., material, bearing design, resonances, etc. and in the end, no tonearm is "perfect'". But the 5T executes at a very high level on all fronts, and its magnificent sound from the first groove to the last is really a joy to behold. It's a genuine masterpiece and will surely be my last tonearm.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I also would take this position further and say that there are other pairing in the hobby that do not involve compromises and trade-offs.

likely

There are amp/preamp pairings that do not seem compromised.

likely

I am happy for you that you are enjoying your new Brinkmann and Reed so much. Perhaps the inevitable compromises are just not so inevitable.

Cartridge/tonearm pairings are much more difficult. I think there is inevitable balancing (compromise) there.

I am talking generally. Any particular audiophile might find a particular cartridge/tonearm pairing to be subjectively perfect to him/her.

There were specific reasons Michael Fremer liked and respected but did not fall in love with the 5T. Michael prefers the solidity and bass frequency power and grounding of the SAT. Different subjective preferences, as usual. Michael did describe the 5T as an "object of desire," and I agree.

Honestly, I am just relieved that I heard something real at Jeroen's six years ago (and it wasn't the bourbon or the excitement of spending time with my dear friend or something), and I was able to replicate it in my system.

 

[tima]

more like he became David's client and trusted his judgment like you did.

Just as did Ron Resnick and Steve Williams. That got blown up for reasons people on this thread (but for Ron & Steve) are unaware.

 

[PeterA]

Eva Cassidy "Fields of Gold"

This might be a very interesting discussion: the differences between these two videos. Is it just the two arms, the Graham and Reed, or are there other differences? I think Ron adjusted VTF in JR's initial set up.

 

[Ron Resnick]

In retrospect I think the ZYX was sounding lightweight on the Graham at 1.9 grams.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron, I'm not sure if the 5T is truly unique since I don't know of all the linear/radial trackers out there. i can tell you I chose it specifically because it does not work by having the needle movement drive the arm movement as do many linear trackers. Rather it is similar to the Goldmund T3F I used for 30 years as both operate by a servo assisted motor to move the arm. It is not only ingenious engineering, but the sound is extraordinary. Once you hear the way it performs sonically in rendering the same character of sound from the beginning of the LP to the end, you will understand why I keep saying pivoted tonearms should be abandoned as they are riddled with tracking distortion that is nominal only at 2 points of the LP. Furthermore, pivoted tonearms mandate anti-skate corrections that are non-linear and vary across the entire LP surface (see post #658 https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/alexx-v-arrive-in-nj.32990/page-33#post-816924).

In short, pivoted arms induce distortion plain and simple and you cannot escape that fact. With a linear tracker, gone is the notion of trying to optimize tracking distortion at specific points such as the end of a side using Baerwald or Loefgren alignments which are band-aids that are no longer necessary for the self-inflicted physical limitations of pivoted arms. Of course, the resultant sound of any tonearm depends on many factors i.e., material, bearing design, resonances, etc. and in the end, no tonearm is "perfect'". But the 5T executes at a very high level on all fronts, and its magnificent sound from the first groove to the last is really a joy to behold. It's a genuine masterpiece and will surely be my last tonearm.

Thank you Marty.

I am certain I am hearing less mechanical artifice with the 5T. I am certain there is a more relaxed, less frenetic quality to the sound versus a conventional pivoting tonearm.

 

[morricab]

Thank you but I am now focusing on Wavac 833. Please let me know if you know of a pair for sale.

By the way, I'm not clear of the differences between Wavac HE-833V2 and HE-833Mk.II -- a bit confusing.

What is your experience with Wavac 833?

Ok, but they are 120 watt SET with serious balls...I have heard them on Apogees and they had no issues driving those. I have not heard the biggest WAVACs. The only one I have heard is the WAVAC HE-805, which was fabulous but I don't know how that translates to the 833 output tube. There is a Chinese company (Taiwan or Hong Kong?) company called Audio Music that makes a 4 chassis 833 mono amp with similar power to the WAVAC. There is one in the UK for 12K.
Cheers,
Brad

 

[Johan K]

Thank you Marty.

I am certain I am hearing less mechanical artifice with the 5T. I am certain there is a more relaxed, less frenetic quality to the sound versus a conventional pivoting tonearm.

Wait a few month and it probably gets even better… .

 

[bonzo75]

I am talking generally. Any particular audiophile might find a particular cartridge/tonearm pairing to be subjectively perfect to him/her.

disagree on that statement. Pairing cartridge and tonearm with a proper phono and system is something an audiophile will have least experience of, just because of the possibilities involved. Often you see audiophiles delighted with one find only to move on from there, and the maximum buying without listening happens with arms and carts. A survey carried out on the forum showed 95% of audiophiles bought their cart without listening. So, I really don’t accept this as “subjectively perfect to him/her”, more like that he has accepted his new purchase and doesn’t know better.

 

[DasguteOhr]

In retrospect I think the ZYX was sounding lightweight on the Graham at 1.9 grams.

Add mass on your headshell graham eff 11~14g go to 19-20g , then 1.95-1.97g for the best dynamic. I think you will change your opinon.
P.S
Take a piece of magical clean and quickly weigh it out, set vtf done in 10 minutes.
you can always clean the cartridge perfectly with it later.

Magical Clean Ton Auto Reinigungsknete Lackreinigungsknete Lackreiniger Reinigun | eBay

Punkt farbe angezeigt, fotos können mit etwas anderen am computer - bildschirm seit monitore sind nicht kalibriert. sie können verschiedene arten von farbflecken wie rost, fett, tote insekten kontamination und spray.

www.ebay.de

 

[Kingrex]

Ron, I'm not sure if the 5T is truly unique since I don't know of all the linear/radial trackers out there. i can tell you I chose it specifically because it does not work by having the needle movement drive the arm movement as do many linear trackers. Rather it is similar to the Goldmund T3F I used for 30 years as both operate by a servo assisted motor to move the arm. It is not only ingenious engineering, but the sound is extraordinary. Once you hear the way it performs sonically in rendering the same character of sound from the beginning of the LP to the end, you will understand why I keep saying pivoted tonearms should be abandoned as they are riddled with tracking distortion that is nominal only at 2 points of the LP. Furthermore, pivoted tonearms mandate anti-skate corrections that are non-linear and vary across the entire LP surface (see post #658 https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/alexx-v-arrive-in-nj.32990/page-33#post-816924).

In short, pivoted arms induce distortion plain and simple and you cannot escape that fact. With a linear tracker, gone is the notion of trying to optimize tracking distortion at specific points such as the end of a side using Baerwald or Loefgren alignments which are band-aids that are no longer necessary for the self-inflicted physical limitations of pivoted arms. Of course, the resultant sound of any tonearm depends on many factors i.e., material, bearing design, resonances, etc. and in the end, no tonearm is "perfect'". But the 5T executes at a very high level on all fronts, and its magnificent sound from the first groove to the last is really a joy to behold. It's a genuine masterpiece and will surely be my last tonearm.

Getting way off topic. But are grooves on records fairly symetricsl. As in, do a certain number of revolutions equal a distance across the face of the record. Get where I am going. Are there maybe 2 or 3 fundimentally cutting head/width.

My point, cant a arm track across a record by revolutions driving the path and stay much closer to optimum than a fixed arm.

 

[marty]

My point, can't an arm track across a record by revolutions driving the path and stay much closer to optimum than a fixed arm.

Sure. You mean, like this?

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ok, but they are 120 watt SET with serious balls...I have heard them on Apogees and they had no issues driving those. I have not heard the biggest WAVACs. The only one I have heard is the WAVAC HE-805, which was fabulous but I don't know how that translates to the 833 output tube. There is a Chinese company (Taiwan or Hong Kong?) company called Audio Music that makes a 4 chassis 833 mono amp with similar power to the WAVAC. There is one in the UK for 12K.
Cheers,
Brad

Thank you. I know Fang of Audio Music.

I don't know if the AM 833 Ultima preserves the warmth Michael Fremer heard from the Wavac.

 

[PeterA]

Thank you. I know Fang of Audio Music.

I don't know if the AM 833 Ultima preserves the warmth Michael Fremer heard from the Wavac.

Are you looking for warmth on every instrument and voice on every recording? What exactly do you mean by warmth from an amplifier?

 

[MRJAZZ]

I don't know yet, but I think it's going to get pretty close, mainly because the 5T allows the relaxed, unfrenetic quality I hear from tape.

The slightly frenetic quality of pivoting tonearm vinyl playback is not apparent until one hears vinyl playback without that quality. Like so much in this hobby, one doesn't know what one doesn't know -- until one hears it.

I really think the Reed 5T is very, very special! I know Michael Fremer respected it, but he did not fall in love with it, but I think that reflects differences in sonic priorities and subjective sonic preferences. For example, Michael would not give up the powerful, grounded bass he loves from the SAT.

Marty can explain why he believes that the 5T is literally unique in the tonearm world (finding it theoretically superior to air bearing linear-trackers because, I believe, of the way the grooves pull the needle across the record, putting differential pressure on the cantilever).

As an aside, the 5T is amusing to watch in operation. It's like there's a little brain inside that is deciding where the cartridge has to go.

How long did it take for your set up installer to get the arm up and running?

 

[marty]

In retrospect I think the ZYX was sounding lightweight on the Graham at 1.9 grams.

That's almost certainly true. For some cartridges, a difference of 0.2 or 0.3 gms may not be very signficant sonically. The ZYX Uni II is unfortunately exquisitely sensitive to VTF. The range between mistracking, good sound and bad sound is very low- about 5/100 of a gram! In my current set-up, the ZYX sounds its best at 2.147 gm. My guess is there is considerable variation from cartridge to cartridge so "set it and forget it" may not be advisable for any specific ZYX Uni II.The general rule for this cartridge as described by others is to find the mistracking point, and then add 0.02 gms and see what that brings to the table. I found that to be good guidance.