Ron, You brought up the notion of perfect sounding for the listener. I try to avoid such language as it is fraught with issues and requires qualification.
Yes, I posted the word "perfect" but it did not occur to me that "perfect" with respect to an audio component would suggest indistinguishable from live music. I used "perfect" to mean perfect to satisfy without perceived compromises the subjective sonic preferences of the purchaser.
When you say that your components are, to your ears, "without compromise," how is that different from saying that you think the components are perfect for the way you want music to be reproduced in your home?
I guess the answer is what you just wrote -- that to you "perfect" means perfect reproduction of (indistinguishable from) live music?
Yes, I posted the word "perfect" but it did not occur to me that "perfect" with respect to an audio component would suggest indistinguishable from live music. I used "perfect" to mean perfect to satisfy without perceived compromises the subjective sonic preferences of the purchaser.
When you say that your components are, to your ears, "without compromise," how is that different from saying that you think the components are perfect for the way you want music to be reproduced in your home?
I guess the answer is what you just wrote -- that to you "perfect" means perfect reproduction of (indistinguishable from) live music?
Ron, I think the word perfect is problematic. I use my example of my amplifier paired with my speakers as not compromised because I do not observe the trade-offs, or ones similar, that you were discussing with your various amplifiers and your speakers. It was an attempt to further the discussion by sharing an example of something that to the listener does not involve compromise and trade-offs between two different alternatives. In that sense, and only in that sense, do I view my amplifier and speakers as not compromised. The absolutists will claim that it doesn’t sound perfect or it doesn’t sound like live music or whatever it is that they want to argue. It is not for me to stand in their way. They can talk to themselves.
I refer to something as not compromised, or involving trade-offs, as a pairing or a component or an entire system that provides extreme joy for its owner. The owner is not burdened by second-guessing this versus that approach or choice. For whatever reason, he does not hear the compromise, whether others claim it or not. You may describe that as someone who is subjectively and personally satisfied with the choices he has made, Perhaps even happy with his sound. I will not quibble with you.
You had reached a point of dissatisfaction, either on your own or through the comments of your visitors, with the sound and ability of your amplifier to drive your speakers. You solicited advice and we spent 30 pages discussing it. Someone made the observation that you are at a crossroads, or fork in the road and now need to choose a particular direction. And with that came the claim that every component in every system and every speaker is inherently compromised. I guess he was suggesting that we all go through choices like the one with which you are confronted. I have explained my reasoning for why I do not think that is the case. I choose not to view the hobby in that light. The need for you to choose between different amplifiers to solve different issues is the result of the choice you made with your speakers. It’s just the way it is, but it does not have to be that way and it is not that way for everyone.
Yes, if an audiophile selects extremely sensitive speakers which can be driven by virtually any amplifier, then he/she can select from the entire universe of available amplifiers.
I refer to something as not compromised, or involving trade-offs, as a pairing or a component or an entire system that provides extreme joy for its owner.
Fair enough. I would say that a component or an entire system can provide extreme joy for its owner even if the owner acknowledges intellectually that the component or the system is compromised in one or more ways.
I have never heard a speaker that is not compromised in some way, or which in theory, at least, could not be improved in some way.
I also agree. There is no true perfection in any earthly thing. Particularly in audio! BUT, I think there is a big difference between looking at an audio system for all its flaws...a kind of hopeless and hapless approach (certainly not an approach for me)...and finding joy either despite the flaws or possibly even enjoying the path of constantly striving to minimize those imperfections even as you revel in the achievements to date. I choose the last path. I absolutely enjoy listening to music every single day...am grateful to have the system we do...and I also enjoy discovering new ways to make that listening experience even better.
The challenge is when I try something...and I get some uplift and some setbacks. And the toughest is I try something...and then after taking it back out, for some reason, I cannot get back to where I was! (Until i figure out what I connected wrong or what has to settle back in again after being removed, etc).
I agree completely on the preamp front. Ron's final destination will include an amplifier and a matched preamplifier pairing that does it all. Dynamics, tone, midbass weight and naturalness. Then all he will need to do is cue up his Reed 5T or spool up his Studer and lose himself in the music.
In my view Ron's room while having a few issues (as all rooms do) is a very special space. Now it's down to fine tuning it all in as he has been working toward and perhaps at the right time making the leap to his dream tube electronics
I don't know. Inappropriate to guess on the warmth question since I have never compared them directly. I don't know about the question of warmer or not in terms of tonal balance.
If you forced me to guess on the weightiness/density question I would say that I suspect the Jadis JA30 might have greater weightiness and density in the upper bass to lower midrange region.
Ron, You claim that Lamm SET is slightly on the warm side of neutral, meaning tonal balance I guess. You own the Jadis JA30 and live with it and know how it sounds. How can you not know if you think it is warmer than the Lamm SET? On what did you base your claim about the Lamm tonal balance? You now claim that you do not know about the question of warmer or not in terms of tonal balance. Sorry, I am confused here about your statements.
I appreciate that you have not made a direct comparison between the Lamm and the Jadis. You claim the Lamm is warm. Would you describe the Jadis as warm of neutral in terms of tonal balance too or not?
Ron, You claim that Lamm SET is slightly on the warm side of neutral, meaning tonal balance I guess. You own the Jadis JA30 and live with it and know how it sounds. How can you not know if you think it is warmer than the Lamm SET?
How could I not know? My reply is how could I possibly know? I have never directly compared them in a relatively familiar or similar system, let alone in my own system.
I have heard Lamm electronics in numerous systems over the years. Nothing has ever suggested to me that Lamm electronics sound on the cool or thin side of the spectrum.
The fact that Lamm electronics can tame the Wilson metal dome tweeter is proof that Lamm electronics are on the warm side of the spectrum.
Different values, different system approaches and different sensitivities to gear characteristics like coherency, acoustic realism or even some having a taste for more artificial characteristics or enhancements, ultimately it’s about simply divergent expectations and different desires and preferences… so it makes sense that what any of us view as a compromise and how acceptable or not we find that compromise is possibly going to vary between all of us and quite possibly even considerably.
So say someone doesn’t like the characteristics of a certain amplifier type then any speaker that requires that kind of amp for its best partnering is ultimately going to be viewed as a choice that may set up a system compromise… but if the ideal amp fit for that speaker type is already someone’s preference then there is no compromise apparent at all.
And while not the same speaker as Ron’s nor the context of supporting gear but I went down a similar process looking for any SET amps that might work for my Magnepan 20.7s and in the end I realised that I was caught in an unviable loop and that as I went up in power requirement’s the things that I was most chasing out of a SET amp were evaporating.
All this in the context that there is indeed no place to hide in gear matching with a ribbon panel speaker like a Magnepan which are so revealing of any differences (especially in the amp matching) that in the end I changed to horns instead and gave in and went with the flow of going with my overriding choice of amp type first.
What made the desired choice of amp antithetical to my choice of speaker meant something (in my approach) had to change. That’s not to say that Ron isn’t in a position to get himself that SET unicorn where I was unable to uncover or budget for one. I did think the Trafo Drina might have been just that beast but Ron already had gone there in his researching and determined that wasn’t a viable pathway for him.
I just figure as all our preferences can be different so then the potential for compromise will come out of a range of compounding choices I imagine. What sort of a short return hobby would this be if it were just easy peasy and we couldn’t make it hard for ourselves???
Just highlighting another case study for Al and andromeda of devious forum people who forced an utterly innocent person to SETs horns. Such things just shouldn’t happen and people should have told you to be happy as you are. That is humanity, after all
This is because I don't think the 5T changes the weight analysis of the speaker/amp combination or adds or subtracts weight from the sound of the system overall. Or if it does I don't care, given what I gain in openness in sp
I don't hear a material difference in openness and spaciality between the VTLs and the JA100s -- maybe VTLs more structured soundstage and Jadis greater depth.
Congratulations Ron on the 5T, recently I have been listening to the 5T again I have found over the years of experimenting it is very capable of real weight it is very sensitive to its mounting platform I have had to had various arm boards machined also to the cables and not to mention the turntable and cartridge itself. Its a tremendous bit of kit and highly capable one I could have easily dismissed if I was not prepared to put the work into maximizing its performance. I wish you years of pleasure with it if I can help in any way you are most welcome to contact me privatly.
Just highlighting another case study for Al and andromeda of devious forum people who forced an utterly innocent person to SETs horns. Such things just shouldn’t happen and people should have told you to be happy as you are. That is humanity, after all
