LampizatOr Golden Atlantic + TRP

Designsfx · Feb 8, 2024

Hello All!
So tonights post is a report of my latest test running triodes in the TRP3. I’m just sitting down to get a first listen of my dac running the ever present Globe 80 combined with a matched quad of Raytheon 6SN7GTB’s from 1955. These are tall bottle NOS black plates that I found last week sitting on Xuling 6SN7 -> 6J5 parallel adapters.

I didn’t really know what to expect here as (we all know) the 6SN7 is essentially two 6J5 elements parked in a single tube. I think my only expectation was an increase in gain but I have to say that whatever the increase it is very subtle, nowhere near the differences seen when going from 6L6G’s to the 6J5’s.
Now as I am not familiar with the 6SN7 family I can’t really compare what I’m hearing to anything other than the sound I experienced when running a straight quad of 6J5GT’s.
At first listen I did sense a difference in the midrange that one could relate to as being an ever so slight dip in the middle of a wide band graphic EQ. Not much- but it is enough to tighten up the sound of driving bass/drums/guitars. I’ve also noticed along with that the higher frequencies are not quite as extended but still present enough to provide a nice sparkle.
So far it’s been a nice presentation overall- not huge sweeping changes from the individual 6J5’s but definitely a different overall voicing. It doesn’t help that I’m currently listening to unknown tracks as well so I think I’m definitely going to have to give these a few more days of playtime before making any further judgments. I am looking forward to this though as the 6SN7 working with this Dac opens up possibilities with other tube variants. Good times ahead!

Carlsbad · Feb 8, 2024

You guys with the balanced DACs. I have a couple pairs of 6sn7s you could try but no quads. Looking good.

Jerry

Designsfx · Feb 8, 2024

Carlsbad said:
You guys with the balanced DACs. I have a couple pairs of 6sn7s you could try but no quads. Looking good.

Jerry

Hey Jerry!
I may take you up on that at some point in the future as I believe the natural evolution of this is to ultimately work out the details where one pair of triodes is driving a different pair for the ultimate in gain and musicality.
My theory here is that a pair low mu/high gain triodes (with the correct qualities) could sit in the back S/E socket positions and be used to drive another different pair of triodes (such as power amplifier type) in the front sockets to create a mixed pairing working in balanced mode. This is the direction I’m going in as I feel (personally) triodes have more to offer than the majority of pentodes out there. Of course that statement is subject to change!
I have a few more individual triodes to try first as I want to gain a better understanding of what their strengths are as well as how they fit my personal preferences. At some point though I will start focusing my purchases towards the method described above to see where that takes things. All in all it’s been enjoyable so far and I every I time I try something new or different I realize more about the flexibility the TRP offers.

Socrates428 · Feb 9, 2024

Designsfx said:
Hello All!
So tonights post is a report of my latest test running triodes in the TRP3. I’m just sitting down to get a first listen of my dac running the ever present Globe 80 combined with a matched quad of Raytheon 6SN7GTB’s from 1955. These are tall bottle NOS black plates that I found last week sitting on Xuling 6SN7 -> 6J5 parallel adapters.

View attachment 124983

I didn’t really know what to expect here as (we all know) the 6SN7 is essentially two 6J5 elements parked in a single tube. I think my only expectation was an increase in gain but I have to say that whatever the increase it is very subtle, nowhere near the differences seen when going from 6L6G’s to the 6J5’s.
Now as I am not familiar with the 6SN7 family I can’t really compare what I’m hearing to anything other than the sound I experienced when running a straight quad of 6J5GT’s.
At first listen I did sense a difference in the midrange that one could relate to as being an ever so slight dip in the middle of a wide band graphic EQ. Not much- but it is enough to tighten up the sound of driving bass/drums/guitars. I’ve also noticed along with that the higher frequencies are not quite as extended but still present enough to provide a nice sparkle.
So far it’s been a nice presentation overall- not huge sweeping changes from the individual 6J5’s but definitely a different overall voicing. It doesn’t help that I’m currently listening to unknown tracks as well so I think I’m definitely going to have to give these a few more days of playtime before making any further judgments. I am looking forward to this though as the 6SN7 working with this Dac opens up possibilities with other tube variants. Good times ahead!

I also landed on old Raytheons as my next adventure in this tube family, although the 6J5G coke-bottle or "ST" shaped variants. Only a couple of days of burn-in on these guys, so more playtime needed. For others, there is a ton of info on the 6J5 tube type at Head Fi: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-reference-6j5-thread-l63-6c5-12j5-6p5-etc.934653/

Carlsbad · Feb 9, 2024

Designsfx said:
Hey Jerry!
I may take you up on that at some point in the future as I believe the natural evolution of this is to ultimately work out the details where one pair of triodes is driving a different pair for the ultimate in gain and musicality.
My theory here is that a pair low mu/high gain triodes (with the correct qualities) could sit in the back S/E socket positions and be used to drive another different pair of triodes (such as power amplifier type) in the front sockets to create a mixed pairing working in balanced mode. This is the direction I’m going in as I feel (personally) triodes have more to offer than the majority of pentodes out there. Of course that statement is subject to change!
I have a few more individual triodes to try first as I want to gain a better understanding of what their strengths are as well as how they fit my personal preferences. At some point though I will start focusing my purchases towards the method described above to see where that takes things. All in all it’s been enjoyable so far and I every I time I try something new or different I realize more about the flexibility the TRP offers.

I sold my best 6SN7s with a 300b amp but I have a few second tier ones that are still very good. Never tried the Raytheon but it is hard to bea the Sylvania VT-231 and similar. I say similar since anything marked VT-231 is pricey.

Jerry

Designsfx · Feb 9, 2024

Hey All-
Just curious as to who within the latest crop of TRP owners are running balanced or single ended. It seems a lot of dacs out there are S/E- any balanced users?

budburma · Feb 11, 2024

My A3 TRP is SE with upgraded PS caps. The 6J5 family is very interesting so far - I picked up pairs of metal KenRad and GE that both proved to be 188-5, GE Kentucky, NOS tubes from late '40's and '51. Also pairs of early '50's metal based straight glass TS and Syl -gt's. the -gt's have a deeper stage, more detail and sound rounder/smoother to me. They are sweeter and also sound nice with the Majestic 80 rectifier. I did pick up a Cunningham (RCA) 380 that was defiitely darker, slower and almost syrupy with nuance lost to my ear. The Marconi U50/80 had more clarity than the Majestic, but leaned to the dry side and away from my warm fall pallet magic carpet wheelhouse.

The ST shaped euro versions look to be interesting, too - especially L63 variants, but I've not picked any up and put that family aside recently for the new issue Gold Lion KT88/nos Valvo AZ1 combos that are really floating my boat. I have a TFKN AZ1 mesh plate on the way to fine tune a bit, but overall am really loving the sound that's so big, natural and inviting with my VAC Phi Alpha integrated. And, it's nice to take a break from rolling and just listen when I have time while I'm diving into other commitments....probably through late Spring anyway.

budburma · Feb 19, 2024

Back to the 6J5's. The inviting musicality, nuance detail and linearity of these really can't be beat. While the Sylvania -gt's w/metal bases are all arounders they are comparatively base shy, but the midrange is beautiful. TS -gt's of the same ilk are, so far, more aggressive in the midrange with more base response and detail, tighter imaging and same large front hall presentation. They could use some more hours to shake off the cobwebs and relax a bit no doubt. A pair of Brimar ST shaped -g's (L63) arrived and are somewhere inbetween. I'm transfixed by these with the Type 80. An old Valvo globe/mesh AZ1 is livelier with a wider and not as deep stage, but loses some inviting warmth and luxurious feeling.

TBH, this is the first combo of equipment and tubes that have gotten me back to the relaxed and comfy zone where all sounds and seems right since dismantling my system a decade ago during a downturn. Just for the curious - it consisted of Dynaudio Confidence 3, Plinius SA201, Klyne 7LX4.0P, AMR CD77.2, SoundScience Music Vault Diamond, Thorens TD150 and cabling from BMI Oceanic/Gabriel Gold/Dynamic Design.

Anyway, the glass 6j5g and -gt's are definitely worth a looksee/listenhear.

highstream · Feb 19, 2024

budburma said:
An old Valvo globe/mesh AZ1 is livelier with a wider and not as deep stage, but loses some inviting warmth and luxurious feeling.

I found the Valvo globe/mesh AZ1 lacking the bit of warmth I like…until at 305 hours it went through its last metamorphosis, and surprise it was there.

Designsfx · Feb 19, 2024

budburma said:
Back to the 6J5's. The inviting musicality, nuance detail and linearity of these really can't be beat. While the Sylvania -gt's w/metal bases are all arounders they are comparatively base shy, but the midrange is beautiful. TS -gt's of the same ilk are, so far, more aggressive in the midrange with more base response and detail, tighter imaging and same large front hall presentation. They could use some more hours to shake off the cobwebs and relax a bit no doubt. A pair of Brimar ST shaped -g's (L63) arrived and are somewhere inbetween. I'm transfixed by these with the Type 80. An old Valvo globe/mesh AZ1 is livelier with a wider and not as deep stage, but loses some inviting warmth and luxurious feeling.

TBH, this is the first combo of equipment and tubes that have gotten me back to the relaxed and comfy zone where all sounds and seems right since dismantling my system a decade ago during a downturn. Just for the curious - it consisted of Dynaudio Confidence 3, Plinius SA201, Klyne 7LX4.0P, AMR CD77.2, SoundScience Music Vault Diamond, Thorens TD150 and cabling from BMI Oceanic/Gabriel Gold/Dynamic Design.

Anyway, the glass 6j5g and -gt's are definitely worth a looksee/listenhear.

@budburma
I’m so glad to hear that you are appreciating the 6J5 family with your system as I know that it works great in mine! I’m currently wringing out the “cobwebs” (as you say) on that last quad of 6SN7’s I purchased and they are getting better with every listen. Others told me that they have always achieved better performance from single 6J5’s vs 6SN7’s but to keep this in context we must understand that they are head amp users who are doubling down on 6J5’s via an adapter into a single socket configured for a 6SN7.
This would obviously be a little crazy in the Lampizator as it would require a dual 6J5 to 6SN7 adapter with two 6J5’s plugged into a 6SN7 to 6J5 parallel adapter that then gets plugged into each socket of the dac. In my case that would be four adapters and eight tubes just to realize if there is any difference! I’m not sure I want to worry about that when there are so many great tubes about there and I’m not really sure it would be an apple to apples result.
On another note I was recommended a Soviet tube the other day that is supposed to be excellent. This is the equivalent of the American 6C5 and is called a “6S5S” but the Russian spelling is 6C5C. These have been described as euphoric with excellent midrange production combined with great response all around. I’ve not heard them but am currently searching for a quad of my own. If anyone has insight into this tubes qualities or knows of its whereabouts please send me a pm!
And lastly- has anyone had any experience with a tube known as the “E235L”? I know that there is no record here of anyone trying it in a Lampizator but just thought I would ask. I had not heard of this pentode before last night but have since read about its use in the DIY amplifier world. Just wondering if it might be worth a try.

budburma · Feb 20, 2024

@highstream That's pretty exact - 305 hours....and I imagine you may be right! I'm curious if you or any one else here has adjusted their speaker placement for flattened soundfields from different tubes. Why it never occurred to me leaves me scratching my head, but maybe that's all it needs!

@Designsfx I haven't ventured beyond the 6J5xx tubes yet, but the 6C5G with the mesh or military CV581solid interior shield/crown looks amazing and just might sound that way too. I also see others using split E83F's for 6sn7's that look amazing as well, but I'm not savvy enough to know if they're usable in the A3 TRP in the same fashion as these 6c,j,p5's. But , really do love using these adapter free - that's another, not to be overlooked, bonus as far as I'm concerned. Less to muck about with - re: the concocted scenario of so many tubes and adapters you conjured up cries out to be dismissed! Like a summary judgement or traffic ticket....

highstream · Feb 20, 2024

budburma said:
@highstream That's pretty exact - 305 hours....and I imagine you may be right! I'm curious if you or any one else here has adjusted their speaker placement for flattened soundfields from different tubes. Why it never occurred to me leaves me scratching my head, but maybe that's all it needs!

Strictly speaking, it was somewhere between ~287, midnight shortly after my previous listening, and 305, when I next listened. The thought of adjusting the speakers has crossed my mind many times, typically during burn in periods, but by the time the tube(s) has settled I've never felt the need to do so. Which is not to say that doing so might not improve the sound, but given how exacting placement is and what it took to get to where they are now, I'm hesitant to mess around short of dissatisfaction.

brianehrlich · Feb 21, 2024

Hi All,
I'm new to the Lampi family. Recently acquired an SE GA3 TRP with volume control. It currently has Siemens f2a and tungsram pv4200 with TP adapters. I have been reading the chain, and just want to confirm that it is safe to use 6SN7 with adapters to 6J5. I also bought a pair of metal RCA JAN 6J5 to try out. As far as rectis I have also an EML 5u4g mesh, tele rgn2004 bottle, gec u52, rca 5r4gy, and an AZ1 (for which I am waiting for an adapter). Let me know what you good folks are liking and I'll start trying things out!

Thanks! Brian

Designsfx · Feb 21, 2024

Hello Brian-
Congratulations on your new dac and welcome to the forum! I thought I’d respond to your question as I’m the one that started the triode in a TRP thing. To answer your question YES you can run 6J5’s in your TRP as it is an indirectly heated tube. If you scroll back through the last few pages of this thread you’ll see various pics of my dac (balanced Golden Atlantic TRP3) with various tubes and adapters. The 6J5 can be used as a straight plug in- no adapter required.
If you choose to try the 6SN7 you WILL need to purchase adapters as that tube is basically two 6J5 elements within a single bottle. There is a pic of my dac with a quad of NOS Raytheon’s on the top of this page. You’ll need to purchase a set of “6SN7 to 6J5 Parallel“ adapters. If you’re familiar with Xuling adapters you can pick them up here-

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2045051891...8MR8GB&hash=item2f9d758b00:g:PYIAAOSw785lL0rW

So off you go! Keep us all informed of your experiences and what you’re trying- it helps us all to share what you’re learning and hearing. If you have any other questions feel free to get in touch. Please remember- the key to substituting triodes for pentodes is that they have to be indirectly heated, no DHT tubes. Have a good one!

budburma · Feb 26, 2024

brianehrlich said:
Hi All,
I'm new to the Lampi family. Recently acquired an SE GA3 TRP with volume control. It currently has Siemens f2a and tungsram pv4200 with TP adapters. I have been reading the chain, and just want to confirm that it is safe to use 6SN7 with adapters to 6J5. I also bought a pair of metal RCA JAN 6J5 to try out. As far as rectis I have also an EML 5u4g mesh, tele rgn2004 bottle, gec u52, rca 5r4gy, and an AZ1 (for which I am waiting for an adapter). Let me know what you good folks are liking and I'll start trying things out!

Thanks! Brian

Welcome aboard! Looks like you've collected the latest and greatest and already have an invitation to many hours of good listening ahead! I'll echo @Designsfx 's enthusiasm for the 6j5 family of tubes. In my system on my modestly upgraded A3 TRP, I like them best. Paired with a globe type 80 or Valvo AZ1/G1064, I'm readily transported and not listening to the tubes or equipment any more. The 6J5 type is a big family of tubes - the Sylvania metal based glass 6J5gt's sound best to be now, but I'm still exploring Brimar and GEC L63's. I also have GE/Kenrad metal 6j5 and Tungsol VT94D in the house - they all sound great, but the Sylvania has the best character for me. There's a lot of info about them found on a 'best of' type of thread on Head-fi. I may be in a minority here though having jettisoned the f2a's as sounding hyper-real to me, but there it is - and that also was with different amplification in my system. With that LTA in place, the best pairing me was Bendix/Tungsol 6384's with their 6016 rectifier. I have some NOS sets of those around - if you're interested PM me. One of the best things with the 6J5 family is not needing adapters - I'm hoping there's a 5xxx rectifier in that group that will sound great, too, and toss the adapters there to boot! Happy trails to you! S you down the road.

budburma · Feb 27, 2024

New champeen: GEC L63 ST shape/gray glass pair with Globe type 80 - Majestic labeled. It's the only globe 80 I have. Cleaner and more present than the Cunningham 380 and Valvo mesh globe AZ1.
Big, deep, nuanced, warm, inviting. Really something.
I'll roll through a few other recti, but so far the 80 is the cream.

christoph · Feb 27, 2024

budburma said:
Welcome aboard! Looks like you've collected the latest and greatest and already have an invitation to many hours of good listening ahead! I'll echo @Designsfx 's enthusiasm for the 6j5 family of tubes. In my system on my modestly upgraded A3 TRP, I like them best. Paired with a globe type 80 or Valvo AZ1/G1064, I'm readily transported and not listening to the tubes or equipment any more. The 6J5 type is a big family of tubes - the Sylvania metal based glass 6J5gt's sound best to be now, but I'm still exploring Brimar and GEC L63's. I also have GE/Kenrad metal 6j5 and Tungsol VT94D in the house - they all sound great, but the Sylvania has the best character for me. There's a lot of info about them found on a 'best of' type of thread on Head-fi. I may be in a minority here though having jettisoned the f2a's as sounding hyper-real to me, but there it is - and that also was with different amplification in my system. With that LTA in place, the best pairing me was Bendix/Tungsol 6384's with their 6016 rectifier. I have some NOS sets of those around - if you're interested PM me. One of the best things with the 6J5 family is not needing adapters - I'm hoping there's a 5xxx rectifier in that group that will sound great, too, and toss the adapters there to boot! Happy trails to you! S you down the road.

Can the 6J5 family also be used as "Pentodes" in the Horizon?

Designsfx · Feb 27, 2024

budburma said:
New champeen: GEC L63 ST shape/gray glass pair with Globe type 80 - Majestic labeled. It's the only globe 80 I have. Cleaner and more present than the Cunningham 380 and Valvo mesh globe AZ1.
Big, deep, nuanced, warm, inviting. Really something.
I'll roll through a few other recti, but so far the 80 is the cream.

@budburma
I was looking over the L63 not to long ago- had heard they are nice but it sounds like you’re preferring it over the other 6J5 bottles. Were did you source these from? I’m waiting to hear back from a supplier on 6J5 glass later this week but may set some aside to try the L63 if available. Let me know!

Designsfx · Feb 27, 2024

christoph said:
Can the 6J5 family also be used as "Pentodes" in the Horizon?

@christoph
Are you buying a Horizon? If so- Nice! I am not going to pretend to be the last word on how the Horizon functions but as far as a pentode goes the 6J5 is electrically the same so I would imagine it would work in that case.
Have you tried the 6J5 in your TRP yet? If not please do so- you’ll be surprised.

tedwoods · Feb 28, 2024

Designsfx said:
@christoph
Are you buying a Horizon? If so- Nice! I am not going to pretend to be the last word on how the Horizon functions but as far as a pentode goes the 6J5 is electrically the same so I would imagine it would work in that case.
Have you tried the 6J5 in your TRP yet? If not please do so- you’ll be surprised.

While you can use the 6J5 tubes in the Atlantic (because it uses pentodes in triode mode - 6J5 is a triode- leaving two elements unused or one in the case of tetrodes like the KT family tubes), the Horizon needs all elements of the pentodes used, so it cannot operate as intended with 6J5's in place.

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