How much does it bother you to see people arguing on the forum. Analogists and digitalists and subcategories.

spiritofmusic said:

Football match, please.

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figured someone would correct me.

Ron Resnick said:

I find it very difficult to believe that you truly prefer listening to music on a computer sound bar via YouTube over listening to music on Rockport Lyra driven by Absolare electronics and fronted by VYGER/Red Sparrow.



Please count accurately:

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I often recommend modestly-priced systems, including as recently as yesterday.

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Half of those are your Madonna records Ron, we know you don't listen to them.

Evergreen post from December 31, 2014:

Daniel Dennett poses an apt question that probes some of the basic tendencies and dynamics of today’s everyone-is-a-critic culture: “Just how charitable are you supposed to be when criticizing the views of an opponent?”

In Intuition Pumps and Other Tools for Thinking — the same fantastic volume that gave us Dennett on the dignity and art-science of making mistakes — he offers what he calls “the best antidote [for the] tendency to caricature one’s opponent”: a list of rules formulated decades ago by the legendary social psychologist and game theorist Anatol Rapoport, best-known for originating the famous tit-of-tat strategy of game theory.

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1.You should attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly, and fairly that your target says, “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it that way."
2.You should list any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3.You should mention anything you have learned from your target.

4.Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.

bonzo75 said:

On your rock and pop, do you explore bootlegs?

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A little bit, not a lot. My problem with the bootlegs I have tried is that if the audio quality is too low/annoying I just can't enjoy listening to the track in a dedicated way on the big system.

Different topic, I realize, but out-takes and alternative takes of studio sessions I find very fun and interesting!

Lagonda said:

Half of those are your Madonna records Ron, we know you don't listen to them.

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Half? Please be accurate. Not half. Maybe 48.75%.

Given the thread's title, I find it ironic that you would all end up arguing (maybe about something else, I don't know, I have not had the inclination to read through all 8 pages).

Quick Poll.

Which of these titles of Shakespeare's plays (not the plot) best fits your impression of this thread?

Love’s Labour’s Lost
The Comedy of Errors
The Taming of the Shrew
A Midsummer Night’s Dream
Much Ado About Nothing

As you like it

bonzo75 said:

For exploration, best is vinyl rips on YT streamed to a soundbar. You don’t need hifi for exploration.

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I can't relate to the above, as music exploration for me is a joyous music experience that I wouldn't choose to listen to with the worst possible playback system (soundbar).

Perhaps music exploration via UT and a soundbar is more strictly an academic/intellectual endeavor rather than music listening ? And maybe this also applies to comparing and making phone videos of systems all over the world? Great if that's entertainment for you and it's fun to see all the systems you've visited, but it doesn't strike me as music centered approach. But maybe that's not unusual for guys in this "hobby" (a word that's always struck as a little odd to describe a music experience).

Massimo66 said:

after seven pages of posts I'm absolutely speechless. I feel like I'm rereading the tale of the scorpion and the frog. at this point I prefer to dedicate my time to a healthy hunt on Discogs. Jokes aside, does anyone pay you(venerable gurus) to keep the tone of the forum so high? in my opinion when you meet you laugh a lot at the expense of those who continue to read your reply. In my opinion you both have it big, obviously I mean the hi-fi system

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It's the usual few suspects who gave a hard edge also to this thread.

The problem is when someone says if you haven't tried some very expensive fuse or piece of wire, you don't know what good is. That's always going to cause friction, especially is one of the protagonists is selling the product in question.

I use several Belden cables, including $10 ethernet cables and speaker cables that cost me $140 and are exactly the same as someone here is selling for $6,000 (after buying from Belden and frying for a while). For me $6,000 is about 40 ballet tickets, or 25 opera tickets, or perhaps 100 concerts or recitals. Whatsbest for me is always live music, and hi-end audio is always going to be vastly more expensive and not even get close to the experience of live music.

I think from a point it's just boys' toys, just like anything else like cars or watches, which is perfectly fine if you have the disposable funds. That's the definition of a hobby. It doesn't have to be justified. If you get a kick from it, then great.

That's my general viewpoint, others will come from lots of other different angles, some may not have access to live music, some like collecting records, others may just be here to sell stuff. Arguments tend to arise when one person is so far down their personal rabbit hole they can't see the other's point of view. I've made a living in dispute resolution for over 30 years, the key to which is understanding your opponent's viewpoint. I have no problem with conflict, it doesn't bother me at all, what I don't like is dishonesty, arrogance or superiority.

I only joined this forum because there was a thread about Garrard 301 and I wanted to do one for a sensible price. It turns out I went much the same route as the forum member. It's now done and the system is finished, the cherry on the cake yesterday was fitting a cartridge I bought in Tokyo a couple of weeks ago.

I only know two audiophiles and the best way to avoid arguments and remain friends is not to discuss audio, something we've maintained successfully for years.

wil said:

I can't relate to the above, as music exploration for me is a joyous music experience that I wouldn't choose to listen to with the worst possible playback system (soundbar).

Perhaps music exploration via UT and a soundbar is more strictly an academic/intellectual endeavor rather than a music experience? And maybe this also applies to listening, comparing and making phone videos of systems all over the world? Great if that's entertainment for you and it's fun to see all the systems you've visited, but it doesn't strike me as music centered approach. But maybe that's not unusual for guys in this "hobby" (a word that's always struck as a little odd to describe a music experience).

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Great to know your server costs is paying dividends to your joyous journey. To me it seems you are confusing musical exploration, highs fidelity, and high expense digital sound. I suggest exploring the vinyl route to combine all three before your next upgrade

ssfas said:

I've made a living in dispute resolution for over 30 years, the key to which is understanding your opponent's viewpoint. I have no problem with conflict, it doesn't bother me at all, what I don't like is dishonesty, arrogance or superiority.



I only know two audiophiles and the best way to avoid arguments and remain friends is not to discuss audio, something we've maintained successfully for years.

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the difference between your profession and most forums is that although both establish written ground rules, forums have trouble reminding folks about them and why they are there when they are violated. This is when active moderators (who aren't mediators) are needed. It needn't be heavy-handed. In fact, it only makes matters worse if it is heavy-handed. But I don't have to tell you that since you live it.

That is pretty funny and very practical. Know which topics to leave behind. I suppose the saying that "The fighting is so intense because the stakes are so low (or variations of that)" apply to this hobby.

I ll get back into vinyl if they bring a robot on the market which can both adjust cartridges / put on records

andromedaaudio said:

I ll get back into vinyl if they bring a robot on the market which can both adjust cartridges / put on records

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I'd rely on that cat more than a robot.

PYP said:

Quick Poll.

Which of these titles of Shakespeare's plays (not the plot) best fits your impression of this thread?

Love’s Labour’s Lost
The Comedy of Errors
The Taming of the Shrew
A Midsummer Night’s Dream
Much Ado About Nothing

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To or not to, is every audiophile's question

PYP said:

Quick Poll.

Which of these titles of Shakespeare's plays (not the plot) best fits your impression of this thread?

Love’s Labour’s Lost
The Comedy of Errors
The Taming of the Shrew
A Midsummer Night’s Dream
Much Ado About Nothing

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More shakepeare quotes for audiophiles:

Frailty, thy name is audiophile

We are such stuff as dreams are made on

Lord, what fools these mortals be - can be said of all audiophiles

Uneasy lies the head that wears the crown

We have seen better days

misery acquaints a man with strange bedfellows

bonzo75 said:

More shakepeare quotes for audiophiles:

Frailty, thy name is audiophile

We are such stuff as dreams are made on

Lord, what fools these mortals be - can be said of all audiophiles

Uneasy lies the head that wears the crown

We have seen better days

misery acquaints a man with strange bedfellows

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This applies as well: “There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.”

As we all know, this was said by Hamlet when Horatio told him that only low-power SETS and horns would suffice and that vinyl was always better than digital. Who are we mere mortals to argue with Hamlet?