Wolf von Langa (WVL) Chicago Speakers - Dream Speakers

Zeotrope · Jun 19, 2024

I would suggest mapping the frequency response using REW, or something better. As you make changes, you can see the changes to response. The room affects bass more than other frequencies.

Also check if the woofers are wired correctly and not out of phase. Swap the speakers, if you can, and see if you hear a difference (ie more L to R).

Ref Audio NZ · Jun 19, 2024

Jean-Berlin said:
Hello

I’m jean from Berlin, i have the opportunity to get a pair of Chicago and after a long listening session in tricky room (high celling , with some echo )

I have questions for those who own those speaker - as it was for me the first time to listen those rare speaker and something remains strange for me as feeling after having done this listening session (esoteric class A 2x20 watt source digital only)

I have the strange feeling that something is not correctly set on the crossover meaning that the lower part of the frequency response seems to be without any blood or energy, ultra flat, like if the woofer was not obtaining the right signal.

From mid to high range every detail is sublime. But the bass looks like totally absent.

Carmina burana, arykah badu , Michel Godard, parmigiani, Brian Eno, joy devision live, jazz live (bass percussion ) even modern low kick from techno track nothing bring the lower woofer in life.

I can’t believe this low driver is set like that so flat.

My questions are the following regarding what I tried with crossover

I change the position from 3 to 1 to avoid to cut lower bass, but nothing really change drastically (slightly more deep)

I connect the speaker cables on the right side of the électrique cable (seems that the signal enter via the low driver before going the tw and medium)

The position of the tw/mid on 3 (1,2,3,4)

The position of B1 seems correct (connected for single amp mode)

Question 1/

Did you have any comment like mine which can result from a poor signal on bass woofer resulting from a wrong cable installation?

Question 2/

Is the speaker optimized for tube amp rather than transistor class A?

Or is the speaker optimized for bi amp to provide a dedicated signal for the low frequency in order to obtain something more deep and warm (loud)

Question 3/

Should we consider a full analogue set up with the Chicago to obtain a more warm live stereo scene with the overwarmsound coming from phono signal?

Question 4/

Position and room : the Chicago seems to have a significant interaction with the position of the speaker and the mid absorber/ difusor which should be place behind the speaker or not - Has there is no closed box / bass reflex for this bass driver do you have a tips to create this loud bass sensation I’m triing to get?

Question 5/

I’m planning to use the speaker bi amp mode on luxman L595 class A , do you have any scheme to help me with to understand the full setting of crossover In order to make sure I find the best set up in bi amp mode ?

Would you recommend only tube to drive the low frequency in bi amp mode

To conclude :

I’m really impressed by the speaker , the esthetics is absolutely insane, I’m in love of the stereo scene and the detail of reproduction of the mid/high, but I’m really confuse with the no capacity to feel loud bass align with the low frequency driver. I want to purshase those speaker I love but as you can imagine I have a little stress about the final reproduction of the bass sound in my listening room

Many thx for any comment to my question

Since you're in Germany, first speak to Wolf for suggestions.
My room has no bass gain due to light suspended wooden floors and glass/ open voids all around the room but I've arrived at a satisfactory result in this very bass-light room by moving the speakers further apart and closer to the front wall. Some rockwool damping panels are now behind the U-baffles - those angled in a little to avoid resonance. Listening chair is 1/3 into the room for stunning soundstage, though the sofa position behind it near the back wall has more bass. I briefly tried bi-amping with 25w Enleum amps but didn't find it worthwhile doubling up on my expensive power cables Albedo speaker cable and interconnects. Chicago are not tuned to one amp type though I get more grounded bass presentation with higher power solid state. No need for tubes though I've just taken on the Kora component range from France - their amps are spectacular on this system. I favour analog but the Rockna Wavedream Signature is nearly equivalent/ or even better in bass quality. Crossover adjustments are subtle for good reason, but very useful. Check the bass coil supplies are not dialled too high/ over-damped. Don't forget increasing mid-bass jumpers to the right - if that adds resonance, increasing the midbass coil 1/4 to 1/2 turn can compensate.

pjwd · Jun 19, 2024

Jean-Berlin said:
Hello

I’m jean from Berlin, i have the opportunity to get a pair of Chicago and after a long listening session in tricky room (high celling , with some echo )

I have questions for those who own those speaker - as it was for me the first time to listen those rare speaker and something remains strange for me as feeling after having done this listening session (esoteric class A 2x20 watt source digital only)

I have the strange feeling that something is not correctly set on the crossover meaning that the lower part of the frequency response seems to be without any blood or energy, ultra flat, like if the woofer was not obtaining the right signal.

From mid to high range every detail is sublime. But the bass looks like totally absent.

Carmina burana, arykah badu , Michel Godard, parmigiani, Brian Eno, joy devision live, jazz live (bass percussion ) even modern low kick from techno track nothing bring the lower woofer in life.

I can’t believe this low driver is set like that so flat.

My questions are the following regarding what I tried with crossover

I change the position from 3 to 1 to avoid to cut lower bass, but nothing really change drastically (slightly more deep)

I connect the speaker cables on the right side of the électrique cable (seems that the signal enter via the low driver before going the tw and medium)

The position of the tw/mid on 3 (1,2,3,4)

The position of B1 seems correct (connected for single amp mode)

Question 1/

Did you have any comment like mine which can result from a poor signal on bass woofer resulting from a wrong cable installation?

Question 2/

Is the speaker optimized for tube amp rather than transistor class A?

Or is the speaker optimized for bi amp to provide a dedicated signal for the low frequency in order to obtain something more deep and warm (loud)

Question 3/

Should we consider a full analogue set up with the Chicago to obtain a more warm live stereo scene with the overwarmsound coming from phono signal?

Question 4/

Position and room : the Chicago seems to have a significant interaction with the position of the speaker and the mid absorber/ difusor which should be place behind the speaker or not - Has there is no closed box / bass reflex for this bass driver do you have a tips to create this loud bass sensation I’m triing to get?

Question 5/

I’m planning to use the speaker bi amp mode on luxman L595 class A , do you have any scheme to help me with to understand the full setting of crossover In order to make sure I find the best set up in bi amp mode ?

Would you recommend only tube to drive the low frequency in bi amp mode

To conclude :

I’m really impressed by the speaker , the esthetics is absolutely insane, I’m in love of the stereo scene and the detail of reproduction of the mid/high, but I’m really confuse with the no capacity to feel loud bass align with the low frequency driver. I want to purshase those speaker I love but as you can imagine I have a little stress about the final reproduction of the bass sound in my listening room

Many thx for any comment to my question

I have a friend with the chicago in a room 7x3.8m and he pulled them nearly 2m into the room , and added some good bass traps in the corners.
That means he sits close to the back wall we but added some reflectors to reflect away from l head
The base is pretty good .. I think he even adjusted the driver voltage to get less bass to have a balanced presentation. His room is sealed so he gets a bit of a bass bump
Dipoles are very room friendly but like all rooms you have to find the best speaker and listening spot to minimize the room mode nulls or peaks
Phil

kevn · Jun 21, 2024

Jean-Berlin said:
Hello

I’m jean from Berlin, i have the opportunity to get a pair of Chicago and after a long listening session in tricky room (high celling , with some echo )

I have questions for those who own those speaker - as it was for me the first time to listen those rare speaker and something remains strange for me as feeling after having done this listening session (esoteric class A 2x20 watt source digital only)

I have the strange feeling that something is not correctly set on the crossover meaning that the lower part of the frequency response seems to be without any blood or energy, ultra flat, like if the woofer was not obtaining the right signal.

From mid to high range every detail is sublime. But the bass looks like totally absent.

Carmina burana, arykah badu , Michel Godard, parmigiani, Brian Eno, joy devision live, jazz live (bass percussion ) even modern low kick from techno track nothing bring the lower woofer in life.

I can’t believe this low driver is set like that so flat.

My questions are the following regarding what I tried with crossover

I change the position from 3 to 1 to avoid to cut lower bass, but nothing really change drastically (slightly more deep)

I connect the speaker cables on the right side of the électrique cable (seems that the signal enter via the low driver before going the tw and medium)

The position of the tw/mid on 3 (1,2,3,4)

The position of B1 seems correct (connected for single amp mode)

Question 1/

Did you have any comment like mine which can result from a poor signal on bass woofer resulting from a wrong cable installation?

Question 2/

Is the speaker optimized for tube amp rather than transistor class A?

Or is the speaker optimized for bi amp to provide a dedicated signal for the low frequency in order to obtain something more deep and warm (loud)

Question 3/

Should we consider a full analogue set up with the Chicago to obtain a more warm live stereo scene with the overwarmsound coming from phono signal?

Question 4/

Position and room : the Chicago seems to have a significant interaction with the position of the speaker and the mid absorber/ difusor which should be place behind the speaker or not - Has there is no closed box / bass reflex for this bass driver do you have a tips to create this loud bass sensation I’m triing to get?

Question 5/

I’m planning to use the speaker bi amp mode on luxman L595 class A , do you have any scheme to help me with to understand the full setting of crossover In order to make sure I find the best set up in bi amp mode ?

Would you recommend only tube to drive the low frequency in bi amp mode

To conclude :

I’m really impressed by the speaker , the esthetics is absolutely insane, I’m in love of the stereo scene and the detail of reproduction of the mid/high, but I’m really confuse with the no capacity to feel loud bass align with the low frequency driver. I want to purshase those speaker I love but as you can imagine I have a little stress about the final reproduction of the bass sound in my listening room

Many thx for any comment to my question

hi there jean ; )

Question 1/ Did you have any comment like mine which can result from a poor signal on bass woofer resulting from a wrong cable installation?
- my Chicagos took a week and a half of fine tuning before I found that balance between bass, midrange and high frequencies - like you, I could not find decent bass initially. it is a combination of room acoustics and the perfect toe-in to the listening position - the Chicago is very very sensitive to small adjustments. It also took a week to settle in to a more steady state of sound delivery. monocrystalline silver speaker cables provide a good increase to the lower frequencies too.

Question 2/ Is the speaker optimized for tube amp rather than transistor class A? Or is the speaker optimized for bi amp to provide a dedicated signal for the low frequency in order to obtain something more deep and warm (loud)
- wolf tells me he feels the airtight 3211 monoblocks give the absolute best sound with the Chicagos. That's in class A per channel up to 30W, after which, it goes all the way up to 120W at 6Ω. He also has the airtight 2211, which at 32W isn't exactly a slacker, but that he never uses if the 3211 is available. This, together with my own experiences with various amplifiers on the Chicago, makes me believe it is more balanced with higher wattage amps, between 30 and 150W, whether bi-amped or not. It does not sound as balanced with low wattage tube amplifiers. It sounds remarkable with well designed and built class A/B solid state amps, where bass frequencies are better resolved and delivered, and where crosstalk is more thoroughly controlled. It is possible the amplifier you were listening to the speakers on were not up to the task, as also may be the case with the luxman you have in mind.

Question 3/ Should we consider a full analogue set up with the Chicago to obtain a more warm live stereo scene with the overwarmsound coming from phono signal?
- the best dynamics I have ever heard from any speaker was from the Chicago from a direct-to-disc cut of Ed Graham's 1978 Hot Stix , which I understand often delivers the greatest dynamics and depth of bass for any given system, and especially the Chicago - the bass from the speakers alone was thunderous, leading me to believe that if bass is lacking in your Chicago, it is not due to the speaker. But a full analogue setup might not give you the most balanced sound - the Chicago is very revealing of everything upstream.

Question 4/ Position and room : the Chicago seems to have a significant interaction with the position of the speaker and the mid absorber/ difusor which should be place behind the speaker or not - Has there is no closed box / bass reflex for this bass driver do you have a tips to create this loud bass sensation I’m triing to get?
- I have found that the field coil drivers take care of most any loss of depth to the lower frequencies. That said, my WVL Son speakers do deliver bass that goes deeper than the Chicago. The tradeoff is that the Son's bass, however much better than almost any other 'box' speaker I have heard, is more generic and untidy than the nuance and detail I hear from the Chicago - to take care of what I miss in the Son, I use a distributed bass array of four servo-assisted subwoofers, crossed over at about 40/45db. The depth these subwoofers bring to the sound is unbelievable, and nothing is heard of them, with all the sound seeming to come just from the Chicago.

Question 5/ I’m planning to use the speaker bi amp mode on luxman L595 class A , do you have any scheme to help me with to understand the full setting of crossover In order to make sure I find the best set up in bi amp mode ?
- I do not believe bi-amping will solve the problem of your flatness of low frequencies, so have no recommendations, but if you do proceed with this course of action, please report on the results! I could learn something from it - thank you : )

As with everything else audio hifi, your mileage may vary for my given views.

In friendship - kevin

GeauxAudio · Jul 1, 2024

I was catching up on this string and wanted to share a few quick comments and offer feedback.

I have SONs and have paired it with a Wagyu after owning the SONs for roughly a year on their own. It is an outstanding addition that blends well and delivers very quick articulate bass. My best compliement is that is doesn't, in my experience, give constant reminders that your system has a separate subwoofer. If you would like specific feedback please feel free to contact me.

Second, I have auditioned the Chicagos, Berlins, and Londons. I find they each have strengths and tend to fit specific tastes and. Again, send me a message if you'd like specifics.

orrman · Jul 2, 2024

Hi all, did anyone hear the WVL and Devore Fidelity O/96 and can share some comparisons?
I have a Lampizator Poseidon and Riviera Levante in my system - would be great if anyone knows anything about potential synergy with the Chicago and SON..

Thanks!

GeauxAudio · Jul 2, 2024

orrman said:
Hi all, did anyone hear the WVL and Devore Fidelity O/96 and can share some comparisons?
I have a Lampizator Poseidon and Riviera Levante in my system - would be great if anyone knows anything about potential synergy with the Chicago and SON..

Thanks!

I have listened to the SONs with the Lampi Golden Atlantic TRP in my home. My Amp is a NAF 845 Speciale Integrated (SET tube design 22 watts/ch) so may be very different from the hybrid Riviera. That said the Lampi sounded excellent in my system. I would describe it as articulate without sounding dry. Mid range was outstanding and well balanced with upper and lower ranges. I've heard the same dac with the Chicago's and Ayre electronics and would say the results are similar but more dramatic, immediate, and forward.

None of this is direct comparison but hope it helps some.

Ron Resnick · Jul 4, 2024

orrman said:
WVL and Devore Fidelity O/96

Both of these are standard loudspeakers recommendations of mine (along with Songer) depending on listener preferences.

orrman said:
Chicago and SON..

I don't have a sense of Wolfie London versus Wolfie Chicago. But if you can make the jump I am sure I personally would like either one of them materially more than the SON, which I also still like a lot. But I really prefer a taller speaker than the SON.

I actually heard the London, and I loved it!

ThatStereoSound · Jul 15, 2024

orrman said:
Hi all, did anyone hear the WVL and Devore Fidelity O/96 and can share some comparisons?
I have a Lampizator Poseidon and Riviera Levante in my system - would be great if anyone knows anything about potential synergy with the Chicago and SON..

Thanks!

I can’t speak at all to the synergy with your current equipment, but when I was shopping for speakers originally the Son and O/96 made the final cut. I went with WVL, but it’s hard to go wrong with either. The Devores IMO are more difficult to position and are less forgiving if you were not able to give them a lot of space. Both speakers play like they are twice their size, but I think the O/96 boogie a little harder. To my ears, the WVL have a more refined sound and excel across a broader range of music. then of course, there is the fact that they are dipoles which give them a more open and spacious sound, which I personally prefer. Also, from my interactions with the WVL US importer, he is great to work with and seems to have a great ear for enduring product.

gleeds · Jul 15, 2024

Orman, I can speak to the Chicago and Son, not the Devores, since I have not listened to them in a familiar environment. In full disclosure, I work with Colin King, the WVL US importer. Colin is my US partner for the importation of Trafomatic Audio tube gear.

I own the Sons and use them in my listening room, and I also have quite a bit of experience with the Chicago. They are superb speakers, as is the "Ultimata," an even higher expression of the same Son design. Each model has a considerable cost difference, especially when choosing between the Son and the Chicago. IMO, if you want it all, the Chicago is an end-game speaker.

The Levante has more power than you need in Class A mode and, therefore, should mate nicely with any of the WVL speakers you are considering. As single-ended tube fans, we love the Trafomatic Rhapsody parallel single 300B integrated with WVLs, which outputs 20 watts per channel. FYI, I also use a Posidean in my system and love it!

The bottom line is that you can't go wrong with adding any of the WVL loudspeakers to your system.

gestalt · Jul 17, 2024

Hi folks, please join us this weekend in Emeryville, CA at the 2024 California Audio Show. Joe Cohen from The Lotus Group and I will have the WVL LONDONs paired with SW1X electronics (all analog this year!) and PranaWire cabling.

Last year was a ton of fun and I expect this year to be even better. I hope to see you there!

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Wolf von Langa (WVL) Chicago Speakers - Dream Speakers

Zeotrope

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Ref Audio NZ

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pjwd

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orrman

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