To Roon or Not to Roon?

Juiced · Jul 13, 2024

I was wondering if I should renew my Roon yearly subscription, as I'm only playing Tidal with it.

I've got a Weiss 501 DAC/Steamer that is "Roon Ready" certified, but it also has DLNA and a USB port.

+ From my Windows PC, I can play Tidal via USB cable with Tidal Software with "Exclusive Mode" enabled, playing up to 192/24 hires.
+ From my Android phone, I can stream Tidal via DLNA with the BubbleUPnP app, streaming up to 192/24 hires.

- I'm not using any of the Roon DSP features.
- I'm not caring for any of Roon's media management capabilities.

What matters to me is audio fidelity, which, from my experience, Roon doesn't improve much if at all.

ecwl · Jul 13, 2024

Juiced said:
- I'm not using any of the Roon DSP features.
- I'm not caring for any of Roon's media management capabilities.

What matters to me is audio fidelity, which, from my experience, Roon doesn't improve much if at all.

Sounds like you’ve answered your own question.
I’m not hearing any reason for you to use Roon.

As an aside, I started using Roon primarily for the DSP features. But with time, I actually started really enjoying Roon’s media management capabilities.

jfrech · Jul 13, 2024

Yeah, Roon isn't audio fidelity champ. I use it, like it for background music. I use other software for critical listening...

Young Skywalker · Jul 13, 2024

The strongest selling point of Roon, for me at least, is the process of musical discovery via its “radio” feature.

Juiced · Jul 13, 2024

Young Skywalker said:
The strongest selling point of Roon, for me at least, is the process of musical discovery via its “radio” feature.

The same feature exist in tidal.

I do love the "Composer" feature in Roon,
great way to discover covers and songs in a verity of genres.

Stefan · Jul 13, 2024

jfrech said:
Yeah, Roon isn't audio fidelity champ. I use it, like it for background music. I use other software for critical listening...

That is precisely my sentiment and way of using Roon.

denydog · Jul 13, 2024

Juiced said:
- I'm not using any of the Roon DSP features.
- I'm not caring for any of Roon's media management capabilities.

What matters to me is audio fidelity, which, from my experience, Roon doesn't improve much if at all.

Seems like you're not really using Roon.

Roon sounds fine to me. Personally I wouldn't trust anyone else's opinion about how it sounds.

Young Skywalker · Jul 13, 2024

denydog said:
Seems like you're not really using Roon.

Roon sounds fine to me. Personally I wouldn't trust anyone else's opinion about how it sounds.

Agreed. I don’t have any issue with the sonic presentation from Roon. I am not hearing things and thinking, “OMG, that sounds harsh/bright/lifeless/opaque/etc.” If the sonic differences between using Roon software or some alternative software solution are as great as some make out then something must be broken with one or more offerings or their implementation. They have a very well defined objective with very well known technical issues. Galvanic isolation (breaking the electrical ground plane) of the conduit for data packets ought to be an end game solution. If it is not, then we ought to be seeking scientific evidence that the perceived differences aren’t simply imagined. I know, I know… trust your ears and all that. But there are many instances where we can’t trust our ears for the psychology aspect makes this very fallible in an analytical sense. By all means trust your ears when it comes to what is pleasing to one’s self but don’t use this as a method of proclaiming absolutes, e.g., Roon sounds poorly.

I contend that the distortions in the frequency, phase and time domain as a result of a loudspeaker’s interactions with the listening environment are orders of magnitude greater than any perceptible sonic difference between any two power cables, equipment racks, streaming software solutions, footers, etc. Address the gross issues before engaging in audiophilia nervosa.

PYP · Jul 13, 2024

Young Skywalker said:
Agreed. I don’t have any issue with the sonic presentation from Roon. I am not hearing things and thinking, “OMG, that sounds harsh/bright/lifeless/opaque/etc.” If the sonic differences between using Roon software or some alternative software solution are as great as some make out then something must be broken with one or more offerings or their implementation. They have a very well defined objective with very well known technical issues. Galvanic isolation (breaking the electrical ground plane) of the conduit for data packets ought to be an end game solution. If it is not, then we ought to be seeking scientific evidence that the perceived differences aren’t simply imagined. I know, I know… trust your ears and all that. But there are many instances where we can’t trust our ears for the psychology aspect makes this very fallible in an analytical sense. By all means trust your ears when it comes to what is pleasing to one’s self but don’t use this as a method of proclaiming absolutes, e.g., Roon sounds poorly.

I contend that the distortions in the frequency, phase and time domain as a result of a loudspeaker’s interactions with the listening environment are orders of magnitude greater than any perceptible sonic difference between any two power cables, equipment racks, streaming software solutions, footers, etc. Address the gross issues before engaging in audiophilia nervosa.

Would be interesting if a small group of listeners tried two (or more) streamers with Roon to determine if implementation within the streamer itself (use exact setup except for streamer) is the reason Roon can sound good to some and not good to others. If those same streamers could use different control software, that would be a good test as well. Given how many variables there are in streaming, it would seem impossible to predict how any control software/streamer will sound until one tests it.

I use Roon all the time and find it can sound very good, especially with 24 bit files. That was true with a Mola Mola Tambaqui as the endpoint as long as copper ethernet cleaners were used, or the Grimm MU1 with the MMT and especially with the Grimm MU2 streamer/upsampler/DAC. Grimm is working on a software update so that the MU1 and MU2 will be able to use JPLAY and Audirvana too. That will make for an interesting comparison of control software.

Qobuz implemented within Roon is a great music discovery tool.

Juiced · Jul 14, 2024

denydog said:
Seems like you're not really using Roon.

Roon sounds fine to me. Personally I wouldn't trust anyone else's opinion about how it sounds.

Roon is all i use but just for Tidal playback

I do love some of its media management features, but it's not worth the extra money for me.

So I was wondering if I should save myself the $150 for the yearly subscription and just switch to the Tidal software.

As for my ears, Roon doesn't improve Tidal SQ and just sounds pretty much the same.

Mark212121 · Jul 14, 2024

Juiced said:
Roon is all i use but just for Tidal playback

I do love some of its media management features, but it's not worth the extra money for me.

So I was wondering if I should save myself the $150 for the yearly subscription and just switch to the Tidal software.

As for my ears, Roon doesn't improve Tidal SQ and just sounds pretty much the same.

It sounds as though you could do without Roon, so it is probably best to cancel your Roon subscription and just use the Tidal software. If you find that you miss some of the functionality of Roon, you can always take out another Roon subscription. Good luck.

christoph · Jul 14, 2024

Stefan said:
That is precisely my sentiment and way of using Roon.

What is your music Player of choice for Sound quality reasons?

Juiced · Monday at 2:55 PM

jfrech said:
Yeah, Roon isn't audio fidelity champ. I use it, like it for background music. I use other software for critical listening...

What software do you listen with?

andreabenassi · 2024-07-21T01:55:44-0500

PYP said:
Would be interesting if a small group of listeners tried two (or more) streamers with Roon to determine if implementation within the streamer itself (use exact setup except for streamer) is the reason Roon can sound good to some and not good to others. If those same streamers could use different control software, that would be a good test as well. Given how many variables there are in streaming, it would seem impossible to predict how any control software/streamer will sound until one tests it.

I use Roon all the time and find it can sound very good, especially with 24 bit files. That was true with a Mola Mola Tambaqui as the endpoint as long as copper ethernet cleaners were used, or the Grimm MU1 with the MMT and especially with the Grimm MU2 streamer/upsampler/DAC. Grimm is working on a software update so that the MU1 and MU2 will be able to use JPLAY and Audirvana too. That will make for an interesting comparison of control software.

Qobuz implemented within Roon is a great music discovery tool.

I did a test with my Bricasti M5 streamer (into an Audio Note DAC 0.1x).
Comparison was between:
- Roon server (Mac Mini M2) with M5 as Roon renderer
- JPlay app driving M5 via UPNP
And... they didn't sound the same way.
With JPlay the sound is more detailed, more "HiFi", you feel like you're hearing more things, and there is a sense of more cleanliness. I understand why many people would prefer JPlay compared to Roon.
But I still prefer Roon SQ cause, with JPlay, I feel that some "body" is lost to advantage those high frequency details.
To me, Roon has a more balanced and natural sound, even if it comes at the expense of... the last drop of detail.
By the way, I don't use Roon DSP or any other sound characterization feature. I use it just because it's the best interface in the market by a far margin and because its Radio feature lets me discover lots of new music (I know, some other software implemented a similar function but, in my experience, Roon Radio works much better than the others).

Juiced · 2024-07-21T03:02:41-0500

I've decided not to renew my Roon subscription.

Now I'm playing Tidal from my Windows PC, connected to the Weiss 501 via generic USB cable.

The odd thing, with the Tidal software I'm finding the bottom end to be more profound and punchier and overall Music to be more engaging.

VS. playing Tidal from Roon over the network via Ethernet cable and a switch hooked up to linear PSU.

Maybe i didn't do enough critical listening with the Tidal software..

Mark212121 · 2024-07-21T04:05:13-0500

Juiced said:
I've decided not to renew my Roon subscription.

Now I'm playing Tidal from my Windows PC, connected to the Weiss 501 via generic USB cable.

The odd thing, with the Tidal software I'm finding the bottom end to be more profound and punchier and overall Music to be more engaging.

VS. playing Tidal from Roon over the network via Ethernet cable and a switch hooked up to linear PSU.

Maybe i didn't do enough critical listening with the Tidal software..

I'm pleased that you are finding the Tidal software more than acceptable and more enjoyable than Roon. I assume you will make a decent saving by terminating your Roon subscription. Well done.

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To Roon or Not to Roon?

Juiced

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ecwl

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jfrech

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Young Skywalker

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Juiced

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Stefan

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denydog

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Young Skywalker

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PYP

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Juiced

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Mark212121

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christoph

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Juiced

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Juiced

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