$10,000 loudspeakers

Lets look at all the available loudspeakers NEW and USED, at and below $10k and figure out what are keepers at the price and what could be bettered for less money? Totally selfish thread since i'm looking for a $10k speaker investment and want to narrow down the list of contenders. New focal Kanta, Dyna C60, revel F228 be. Used Salon 2, sopra 2, 207/2, Sasha 3, etc. Obviously speakers respond to different electronics differently and rooms always present challenges, but lets see what you would spend $10k lottery money on a pair of speakers.

 

I never liked the salon , plastic sounding drivers NO bottom end

lol

 

lol

?? Sorry i only realized later you had a pair ??
lol

 

personal anecdote...i elected to do a shootout between my G originals and both the 2805 and 2905 on the basis, i was 'sure' i would end up with the 2905. I was shocked after an aftrnoon ARC Ref 250 monos...that the 2805 was out of contention quite quickly (to my ears/taste)...and i was unconvinced there was any point in the 2905.

We then turned our attention for fun to the big SF Strad...and that was when side by side, i realized how well the Strad managed to deliver so much G magic while generating scale/size/big bass and power. Sadly, we did not have the time/ability to put the G's with a big Velodyne to do the next shoot out.

In any event, a real eye/ear opener for someone who has always been a big admirer of Quads for many years.

I have owned ESL63 for more than 30 years - and still own them. As I have also owned Guarneri's twice in the mean time, so I had the opportunity to compare them directly several times in two different middle sized rooms ~40 square meters. For my musical preferences there is no doubt - I could easily live with the ESL63 today, the Guarneri's are a beautiful sounding speaker, but was not up to the musical standard created by the ESL63.

The ESL63s need a good size room, they must be placed far from the front wall to avoid bass cancellation and need very careful matching. Although conventional tubes can sound bewitching with them, they only show their best with OTLs or top solid state. And surely, they are not a speaker made to electronic or rock music - I perfectly see that they will not attract many of our WBF members.

A good friend of mine participated in many of these listening sessions. He often commented that after a few hours listening to a great system using the Quad's other speakers sounded like shoe boxes for the first half an hour. I like a lot the big Soundlab's - but compared to the Quad's they sound colored!

But yes, at shows and shop demos 99% of the time they are sounding miserable - the ESL63's are a one person listening speakers with a small sweat spot. For demo purposes that are systematically wrongly set up to avoid showing this aspect.

One final problem - they loved expensive ancillaries. You can easily spend a fortune around them and their sound would always improve. Surely IMHO, YMMV.

 

Lets look at all the available loudspeakers NEW and USED, at and below $10k and figure out what are keepers at the price and what could be bettered for less money? Totally selfish thread since i'm looking for a $10k speaker investment and want to narrow down the list of contenders. New focal Kanta, Dyna C60, revel F228 be. Used Salon 2, sopra 2, 207/2, Sasha 3, etc. Obviously speakers respond to different electronics differently and rooms always present challenges, but lets see what you would spend $10k lottery money on a pair of speakers.

what speakers have you liked at shows? what qualities do you want in a speaker? what sized room? what amplification preferred?

saying best for 10k is going to give a litany of bad answers unless you give us more.

 

I have owned ESL63 for more than 30 years - and still own them. As I have also owned Guarneri's twice in the mean time, so I had the opportunity to compare them directly several times in two different middle sized rooms ~40 square meters. For my musical preferences there is no doubt - I could easily live with the ESL63 today, the Guarneri's are a beautiful sounding speaker, but was not up to the musical standard created by the ESL63.

The ESL63s need a good size room, they must be placed far from the front wall to avoid bass cancellation and need very careful matching. Although conventional tubes can sound bewitching with them, they only show their best with OTLs or top solid state. And surely, they are not a speaker made to electronic or rock music - I perfectly see that they will not attract many of our WBF members.

A good friend of mine participated in many of these listening sessions. He often commented that after a few hours listening to a great system using the Quad's other speakers sounded like shoe boxes for the first half an hour. I like a lot the big Soundlab's - but compared to the Quad's they sound colored!

But yes, at shows and shop demos 99% of the time they are sounding miserable - the ESL63's are a one person listening speakers with a small sweat spot. For demo purposes that are systematically wrongly set up to avoid showing this aspect.

One final problem - they loved expensive ancillaries. You can easily spend a fortune around them and their sound would always improve. Surely IMHO, YMMV.

very interesting...an experience i will look for someday...however, given my penchant for propulsive bass (deep house eletronic, Hans Zimmer soundtracks, etc)...i suppose probably more to hear such a reference and learn than anything else. In fact, when compared with the 2805...that was one of the reasons i preferred the Guarneri...it seemed more solid than i was expecting in comparison with the 2805.

 

Keep in mind the JBL 4367, literally a full range 2-way and going for under 10k used..

 

The biggest difference is the imaging, the tall narrow f52's imaged like I was wearing a pair of headphones ....

Well, that would turn me off right away.

 

You did not specify type of speaker but if you are open to planars my vote goes to used Magnepan MG-20.7s, which I believe are less than $10,000 used.

 

Micro, I have three friends who sold their Quads for Guarneri’s. Two had ESL 63’s and replaced them with Guarneri Memento’s and the third had a 2905 and replaced that with a Guarneri Evolution.If you ask any of them if they were unhappy with the replacement, I seriously doubt they would tell you they would be going back to what they had before..

 

I would add Benesch ACT to your list and I have been happy with mine for over a decade. Sonically they do little wrong, having only a minimalist crossover with direct drive midrange, and the carbon fibre construction allows for a rigid but compact build. The finish is exquisite with burr walnut facings from the same supplier whom Bentley source their dashboards from.

 

Tekton Double Impact

http://www.tektondesign.com/double-impact.html

 

Lets look at all the available loudspeakers NEW and USED, at and below $10k and figure out what are keepers at the price and what could be bettered for less money? Totally selfish thread since i'm looking for a $10k speaker investment and want to narrow down the list of contenders. New focal Kanta, Dyna C60, revel F228 be. Used Salon 2, sopra 2, 207/2, Sasha 3, etc. Obviously speakers respond to different electronics differently and rooms always present challenges, but lets see what you would spend $10k lottery money on a pair of speakers.

ESL 57 (Refurbished/Modded)

Altec 604 (Refurbished/Modded)

Boenicke W11

Feastrex D9nf in DIY open baffle

--

Best,

853guy

 

Micro, I have three friends who sold their Quads for Guarneri’s. Two had ESL 63’s and replaced them with Guarneri Memento’s and the third had a 2905 and replaced that with a Guarneri Evolution.If you ask any of them if they were unhappy with the replacement, I seriously doubt they would tell you they would be going back to what they had before..

Thanks, Quad sold tens of thousands of ESL speakers and Sonus Faber sold a few hundreds Guarneri Homage. We can expect that many people sold Quad's to get other speakers, particularly in countries where servicing them became an issue.

I think you will agree that Guarneri Memento's are very different sounding from the Homage. But, in fact, as I am a Sonus Faber lover, I still have the old Sonus Faber Amator, the one with the Dynaudio Esotar T330 famous tweeter and the solid walnut adjustable stands, used as front channels in my AV system. For my taste and preference, it still sounds a lot better than Guarneri's - probably also because the Amator's are - 6dB at 35Hz and the Guarneri are -6dB at 48 Hz. Surely the Guarneri Homage are an hallmark in the mini-monitor history - if I was a true collector I would own one pair.

I posted on the Amator I two years ago:

I have owned both the Sonus Faber Electa Amator I & II, even simultaneously and fully agree with you - they are great speakers.

However, as soon as we switch to preference I must state that I still own the Sonus Faber Amator I - although the II is more expended in the bass, the tweeter of the Amator I, the famous Dynaudio Esotar MD330 is IMHO in a difference league from the tweeter used in the Amator II. It is exactly the same tweeter that was used in the Extrema's. Perhaps the Amator II behaves better, but the original sound balance is still my choice, particularly with high quality tube amplifiers.

People loving the Amator's should read the translation of the Krakow Sonic Society - Meeting No. 91 report involving the DCS Vivaldi audition in Positive Feedback http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue71/krakow_zurek.htm

Quoting:
"What's more, it was the best sound we'd ever heard, period. These are big words, I know, but I cannot find any other adjective to describe our experience. Even assuming, without any prior audition, that the very price of dCS and its accompanying "accessories" warrants such a statement, it would be contradicted by the small stand mount speakers and low power amplifier at Janusz's (the Sonus faber Electa Amator I and the Ancient Audio Silver Grand Mono, respectively). However, after listening to a few albums, I saw Raveen walking around the Sonus fabers and muttering something under his breath. I could have sworn it was something like, "that's f…ing impossible", if I hadn't known him to be a most cultured man. But internally, he must have communicated something similar, since he said himself that he'd never experienced something like that. And he was shaking his head exactly the same way and at the same pace as John Zurek from Positive-Feedback had done a month earlier, walking around the same speakers (see HERE). Janusz's amplifier from Ancient Audio never, ever sounded this way. There was no usual audiophile talk about various sonic aspects and how they were rated. Instead, we simply talked whether the church venue was larger or smaller, or whether the vocalist was closer or further from us."

I already own the speaker, I have now an excuse to order the DCS Vivaldi ...

 

Lets look at all the available loudspeakers NEW and USED, at and below $10k and figure out what are keepers at the price and what could be bettered for less money? Totally selfish thread since i'm looking for a $10k speaker investment and want to narrow down the list of contenders. New focal Kanta, Dyna C60, revel F228 be. Used Salon 2, sopra 2, 207/2, Sasha 3, etc. Obviously speakers respond to different electronics differently and rooms always present challenges, but lets see what you would spend $10k lottery money on a pair of speakers.

Along with some of the other experiences and preferences you have started to detail in other posts, adding some information about your room size, layout, and electronic/amplification preferences might help a lot to get you more insightful recommendations.

 

ESL 57 (Refurbished/Modded)

Altec 604 (Refurbished/Modded)

Boenicke W11

Feastrex D9nf in DIY open baffle

--

Best,

853guy

Feastrex are fun drivers, almost unbeatable on "girl w/guitar" music. I think they do far better in a ported box to limit their excursion or with helper woofers. I've been considering seeing if I can get a set made for my requirements at some point but am a ways away from approaching them about it.

 

Feastrex are fun drivers, almost unbeatable on "girl w/guitar" music. I think they do far better in a ported box to limit their excursion or with helper woofers. I've been considering seeing if I can get a set made for my requirements at some point but am a ways away from approaching them about it.

Hi Dave,

Ha! For a long time I also had them in a basket of "things I must own at least once in my life but let's face it it's probably never going to happen"... And yeah, it's probably never going to happen. (Or is it?)

Agreed they might do best in a ported box with a passive radiator as Feastrex themselves most often demo them (or in an OB actively bi-amped configuration like the Lotus Group Granada), but I was attempting to stick within the $10K limit.

Best,

853guy

 

Thanks, Quad sold tens of thousands of ESL speakers and Sonus Faber sold a few hundreds Guarneri Homage. We can expect that many people sold Quad's to get other speakers, particularly in countries where servicing them became an issue.

I think you will agree that Guarneri Memento's are very different sounding from the Homage. But, in fact, as I am a Sonus Faber lover, I still have the old Sonus Faber Amator, the one with the Dynaudio Esotar T330 famous tweeter and the solid walnut adjustable stands, used as front channels in my AV system. For my taste and preference, it still sounds a lot better than Guarneri's - probably also because the Amator's are - 6dB at 35Hz and the Guarneri are -6dB at 48 Hz. Surely the Guarneri Homage are an hallmark in the mini-monitor history - if I was a true collector I would own one pair.

I posted on the Amator I two years ago:

Interesting. Btw, were you using the GH's as front channels in your AV system?
Yes, the GM's are very different to the GH's, they are totally inferior as far as I am concerned. However, both friends sold ESL63's to acquire them....the GH's were not available at the time.

 

Interesting. Btw, were you using the GH's as front channels in your AV system? (...)

Little success on this experiment - the Guarneri Homage stands are tall and elegant, but the system looked completely out of proportion in my living room, as the plasma screen is only 55 cm from the floor. The Amator stayed! BYW, the AV system does not match the speakers quality - just a Thule AV processor and a 5 channel power amplifier.

 

Little success on this experiment - the Guarneri Homage stands are tall and elegant, but the system looked completely out of proportion in my living room, as the plasma screen is only 55 cm from the floor. The Amator stayed! BYW, the AV system does not match the speakers quality - just a Thule AV processor and a 5 channel power amplifier.

Micro, I'm sure the GH's must have looked great next to your TV. I presume you owned the GH's first and then replaced them with the Amator's, which I'm sure must also look great next to the plasma.

 

Micro, I'm sure the GH's must have looked great next to your TV. I presume you owned the GH's first and then replaced them with the Amator's, which I'm sure must also look great next to the plasma.

No they didn't - they were too tall, as I explained. The Amator walnut stands were adjustable and I could lower the speakers global height. As a matter of fact, I think that the Amator's come first and were already in place, the Gaurneri went in my office that was simultaneously my listening room. There they looked great. When something else come to replace them, I had to find a place for the Guarneri before a friend could get them.

BTW, depending on user taste the SF Guarneri and Amator's have a strong competitor in the B&W Silver Signature SS25 - for someone enjoying solid state sound they are terrific.