211 valves: please share your experiences

[Audiocrack]

Marc, as regards the Elrog 242/special 211 tube I refer to the following link:

http://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/2016/12/elrog-er242c-211-with-molybdenum-plate.html?m=1

 

[spiritofmusic]

€5200 for 4, mmm.

 

[bonzo75]

An elrog pair was on sale for 600 in the UK

 

[spiritofmusic]

Ked, need quads, and matched/balanced. I’m dreading when my current GE 211s begin to fail.

 

[microstrip]

(...) When you matched your tubes, did you check from time to time how they developed? And maybe now and then replaced one or more because the originally matched valves started to ‘drift apart’?

Yes, I checked them several times. Fortunately after the 100 hours burn-in most of them became stable, but there was some fluctuation during burn-in. During the last years, I had to replace tubes only a few times - most of the time because they became noisy, or in power tubes because they developed grid current and became unstable. Very different from the horrible days of the chinese 6550's of the 90's!

 

[microstrip]

(...) Notwithstanding this ‘Kondo matching’ my nos RCA 211 valves from 1942 sound superior. It is not so much a matter of a lower noisefloor or greater transparency but the former (the Kondo stock 211 tubes) sound ‘synthetic’ and ‘crude’ in comparison to the latter: the liquidity, the smoothness, the refinement and - as a consequence - the ‘musicality’ of the RCA’s are on a different level.(...)

As RCA 211's are supposed to last forever you are safe!

I must say I am learning something from this thread - I should avoid amplifiers with 211's. I am considering trying medium power triode amplifiers with the Vivaldi and XLF, and after some search I am now focusing in the russian tubes, the NOS GM's and GU's, that we can find in abundance at nice prices.

 

[Audiocrack]

€5200 for 4, mmm.

Told you, crazy prices.

 

[Audiocrack]

An elrog pair was on sale for 600 in the UK

I am informed by several reliable sources that the ‘regular’ Elrog 211 tubes cannot compete with the high quality nos 211 valves. The nos GE 211 is the possible exception but I am not dure about that.

 

[Audiocrack]

As RCA 211's are supposed to last forever you are safe!

I must say I am learning something from this thread - I should avoid amplifiers with 211's. I am considering trying medium power triode amplifiers with the Vivaldi and XLF, and after some search I am now focusing in the russian tubes, the NOS GM's and GU's, that we can find in abundance at nice prices.

I have a spare quod Amperex 211’s and a spare quod United Electronics 211’s. So I suppose I am ‘good’ for the time being.

As regards avoiding 211 amplifiers due to the high prices of the nos 211 tubes: the nos GE’s can still be found for reasonable prices and ... once you have tried a good 211 set amp with your XLF, you might be hooked for the rest of your life. So who knows?

 

[spiritofmusic]

My NAT monos sound great w GE 211s, so I can second that.

 

[microstrip]

I have a spare quod Amperex 211’s and a spare quod United Electronics 211’s. So I suppose I am ‘good’ for the time being.

As regards avoiding 211 amplifiers due to the high prices of the nos 211 tubes: the nos GE’s can still be found for reasonable prices and ... once you have tried a good 211 set amp with your XLF, you might be hooked for the rest of your life. So who knows?

If I already owned a top 211 amplifier with success, as you, I would surely go on enjoying it. But for someone just wanting to start why risk being hooked and later distressed by your comparisons?

In this hobby there is not a "best", but we can always create something "better"!

 

[Audiocrack]

If I already owned a top 211 amplifier with success, as you, I would surely go on enjoying it. But for someone just wanting to start why risk being hooked and later distressed by your comparisons?

In this hobby there is not a "best", but we can always create something "better"!

Maybe I missed something but which 211 amplifier do/did you own?

 

[Zero000]

Here's a video I shot of the STC 4242 in Silbatone amps at Munich 2011. In the first set of amps you get to see.

 

[Zero000]

When I saw the 4242s I spoke to Joe Roberts of Silbatone saying I had never seen any in the flesh before.

He was of the opinion that they were the best sounding 211. That's why they're in there. Silbatone kit is very expensive and the room that year was just sounding awesome.

So there you go. PQ and Joe seem to be in agreement on it being the best. Hard to ignore that.

 

[microstrip]

Maybe I missed something but which 211 amplifier do/did you own?

My only experience in my listening room with powerful DHT was Cary with Wilson/Puppy system 7, long ago. But no recent experience.

 

[Audiocrack]

When I saw the 4242s I spoke to Joe Roberts of Silbatone saying I had never seen any in the flesh before.

He was of the opinion that they were the best sounding 211. That's why they're in there. Silbatone kit is very expensive and the room that year was just sounding awesome.

So there you go. PQ and Joe seem to be in agreement on it being the best. Hard to ignore that.

Are these 4242 valves fully interchangeable with 211 tubes? That is, can they be used with any 211 amplifier?

I am asking because - for example - I understand that the (Telefunken) RS237 valve is not fully interchangeable with the 211. Thought seriously about the former tube for my Kagura’s but did not dare to take that step.

 

[gian60]

I had some top amp with 211 but i don't like a lot this tube.
Sure are amazing amp with natural sound and good power,but i always found little slow,little roll off and little heavy on mid bass with bass not perfectly correct.
And i had with Audiotekne horn speaker 3 way,woofer Altec 416 and mid and tweeter ALE DE 4550 and 1710 and later with Audiotekne monovia carbon block with super tweeter ALE DEP 1750
and tried also with EV Sentry III with Yamamura super tweeter and Montagna.

I had Yamamura mono with external power supply,push pull of 211,then bought 2 times Gakuon,first Ongaku with volume in front and rca on top,Ongaku,Ongaku KSL,ANUK Jinro
Audio tekne Yamato mono,


and i tried Air tight 211 and listen many times from my friend Gakuon II ( Shinden ) with M1000 mk II and all has this kind of sound.
I had different tubes 211,like RCA,GE,Amperex,ecc

I like much more amp,that i had, with 2A3 and 6AS7G like FAL,a fantastic Japan Integrated by Furukawa,KIOM from Italy,now owner of Riviera,ANJ Neiro Silver and Kegaki,same of Neiro but with silver trans,Kondo Souga and Audioteke tm 9502

,

even if the only problem is the power because they have from 6 to 11 watt,even if Souga with 8 watt and Audiotekne with 11 watt with their top pre seems to listen a 50 watt amp.
With this amp,for me and my experience sound is much more natural,transparent without roll off
If i will buy a tube amp i will check only amp with 2A3,for me

Regards to everybody
Gian

 

[gian60]

And Kagura i never listen,one time in Munchen and sound was very good but i don't give judgment if i don't try at home with my reference

 

[Audiocrack]

I had some top amp with 211 but i don't like a lot this tube.
Sure are amazing amp with natural sound and good power,but i always found little slow,little roll off and little heavy on mid bass with bass not perfectly correct.
And i had with Audiotekne horn speaker 3 way,woofer Altec 416 and mid and tweeter ALE DE 4550 and 1710 and later with Audiotekne monovia carbon block with super tweeter ALE DEP 1750
and tried also with EV Sentry III with Yamamura super tweeter and Montagna.

I had Yamamura mono with external power supply,push pull of 211,then bought 2 times Gakuon,first Ongaku with volume in front and rca on top,Ongaku,Ongaku KSL,ANUK Jinro
Audio tekne Yamato mono,
View attachment 38328

and i tried Air tight 211 and listen many times from my friend Gakuon II ( Shinden ) with M1000 mk II and all has this kind of sound.
I had different tubes 211,like RCA,GE,Amperex,ecc

I like much more amp,that i had, with 2A3 and 6AS7G like FAL,a fantastic Japan Integrated by Furukawa,KIOM from Italy,now owner of Riviera,ANJ Neiro Silver and Kegaki,same of Neiro but with silver trans,Kondo Souga and Audioteke tm 9502

View attachment 38329,

even if the only problem is the power because they have from 6 to 11 watt,even if Souga with 8 watt and Audiotekne with 11 watt with their top pre seems to listen a 50 watt amp.
With this amp,for me and my experience sound is much more natural,transparent without roll off
If i will buy a tube amp i will check only amp with 2A3,for me

Regards to everybody
Gian

Hello Gian,

In the end always the matter of taste get’s involved. I am sure more audiophiles prefer other valves or solid state amplifiers to 211 based amplifiers. What puzzles me somewhat however is your qualification ‘slow’: I consider set amps in general and 211 amps in particular (rather) ‘fast’ amps.

As regards your description of the 211 bass: don’t you think that is or was mayby in your case for a large part - also - a matter of interaction with the loudspeakers?

Of course a tube or set bass sounds different compared to solid state bass. But it appeals to me (so a matter of taste again I suppose).

 

[gian60]

Hi,
your Kagura is not an amp,is a SPECIAL SUPER amp,so is out from this thread.

I compare Audio tekne Yamato with 211 vs Audiotekne TM 9502 with 6A7Sg,and this was more transparent,natural and faster,then i compared FAL with Ongaku and FAL with 2A3 was much more transparent than Ongaku,My friend had for some years M 1000 MK II and Shinden and Souga,and we tested many times with different cartridges and Souga was more dynamic and fast than Shinden
and also AIR TIGHT 211 is not a fast amp
All this amp i found with my 4 speaker and with Tannoy Autograph and Yamamura Dionisio always little heavy in mid bass