5 way system, horns and more. From the beginning to now

Having only heard this horn

https://josephcrowe.com/products/3d-cad-files-horn-no-1994-es450-biradial-for-jbl-2446-2-throat

https://josephcrowe.com/blogs/news/es-450-biradial-no-2143


in a system with the B&C DCM50 midrange and a Fostex T96A tweeter in this waveguide
https://josephcrowe.com/blogs/news/lens-no-1896-for-fostex-t96a?_pos=2&_sid=8054c5b96&_ss=r

, I’m troubled trying to decide between that horn and the JMLC AH425, which some at diyaudio.com have argued I should have Troy Crowe build for me instead, if partially because I happen to own a pair of those undrilled horns, though my budget is large as I’ve been saving for years.

Presumably, the narrowing directivity patterns of both horns are similar.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...ot_2023-10-14_170306_480x480.png?v=1697317415

But might the ES-450’s vertical response likely be wider than the AH425 below 1kHz though narrower at 10kHz?

And while having a mere ~ 4 ft sweet spot, would the 425 horn offer superior imaging and vertical spaciousness?

With a wider sweet spot would not the ES450 deliver horizontal spaciousness?

What other sonic differences might you expect between these horns?

How to decide??
It's very hard to guesstimate.

I can offer some comparison between different profiles and flare rates though (although not directly comparable).

The Tractrix 550Hz and Le Cléach 550Hz horn i had were too wrapped around for my room. They fired sound off in all directions and that required room treatment.
They also had longish throats and I relate that to a more coloured sound than I like.

The narrower constant conical of the SH50s provides better directivity control.

However I had a feeling they were too narrow!
Some had written about the slight lack of central stereo image, typically on vocals, so I decided to build new 60° conical Synergy horns.

More on that actual build later..

I have listened to the new SH60 alikes extensively.
The SH60s sound more open and even more even!
There's a more solid stereo image / central vocal when it's mixed that way, yet the out wide dynamics are still there.

I played various test my tracks and was wowed - wife listened to her favourites and simply said, "you've nailed it".

A test track for midrange soul - the clarinet solo from the remastered Duke Ellington and Louis Armstrong Together recordings..
That solo sounded amazing on my old round horns. The very special JBL 2482 Alnico / Phenolic compression drivers on the perfect size T200 horn for those frequencies, brought it to life like it was in the room. Rare experience.
However, other things they did not do so well..

The black SH50s never quite captured that magic but did everything else better imo.
These new SH60s got the emotion and tone just right. I was amazed.

Neat trick from a change in horn angle. But its all to do with the sound waves interacting with each other and the room..
Angles do matter.

Can't explain it better than that.
Conicals should not sound this good should they.

Personally I would avoid horns with long throats and go with more rapid opening waveguides.
 
Le Cléach 550Hz horn i had were too wrapped around for my room. They fired sound off in all directions and that required room treatment. They also had longish throats and I relate that to a more coloured sound than I like.

The narrower constant conical of the SH50s provides better directivity control.
From what I know of Le Cléach horns, at least of the 425, their directivity pattern is so narrow, at least at and ever higher than 1kHz, makes them too beamy for much sound to get reflected off side walls. I've never been able to find any polar plots on the 425, but here's one on Troy Crowe's version of a Le Cléach horn.

Observe the narrow directivity polar.

And note in the concluding remarks that room reflections are accordingly not an issue.

But by better directivity control do you mean more narrower (focused), or constant directivity, such provided by these horns? https://audiohorn.net/x-shape-horn/

Personally I would avoid horns with long throats and go with more rapid opening waveguides.
Do you mean like those Audiohorns and/or like this?

Or this? https://www.bcspeakers.com/en/products/horn/1-4/0/me90
 
Perhaps it's because I have a loft room with Apex ceiling and the T200 horns had to be near the sloping ceilings to get width.

Now I have ~ +500Hz sound absorbing panels from the mouths the 2ft forward that Danley recommended. That's on the side wall and apex ceiling.
Before I needed much more.

Really hard to know about those profiles.
I don't have experience of them.

Here's a couple of pics of the SH60 alikes closer up / in natural light

IMG_20250416_194716.jpg

IMG_20250416_194707.jpg
 
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Hi,

I remember your early experiments with the Tannoys. You've come a long way since then!
Keep-up the spirit, we'd love to see more.

Best regards,
Tony
 
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On to a bit of measuring of the new SH60 horns.

Vitavox S2 HF

SH60 HF RH.jpg

That will do nicely.
Giving plenty of HF extension for my ears


MF just 2 X 5" drivers. Needed a little fix.
I guess it's the tap recessing being slightly different - more than 2 Vs 4 drivers effect, but who knows?

Before

SH60 MF RH As was.jpg

After

SH60 MF RH Corrected.jpg

MF and HF together

SH60 MF+HF RH Corrected.jpg

Note how the phase 'falls in' nicely.

LF + MF + HF

SH60 LF+MF+HF RH.jpg

Overall phase just came together without any time alignment changes needed.

Pleased with these.

However I usually find the MF drivers way to pronounced with fairly level plots like these though. Easy to reduce.

The tapped horns come in at 55Hz, not measured here..

Pic of the measurement rig.
Mic at 1m from mouth.
>~500Hz room treatment tunnel to reduce room interaction

IMG_20250420_172101~2.jpg

Will have a listen later and compare to the before changes
 
Sonore Ultrarendu

Screenshot_20240212_114648_com.android.chrome~2.jpg

I tried these with various power supplies and with / without optical lan (also on linear power).

I then got a Gustard U18 and in conjunction with the Ultrarendu that solution with Qobuz and Bubble Upnp controller (not in the music loop), was the most satisfying sound.
Hi Multiway,
I am very much interested in the Ultrarendu.
May I ask you which PS you found best with the UR and which DAC you do use with it?
Thank you :)
 
Last edited:
Hi Multiway,
I am very much interested in the Ultrarendu.
May I ask you which PS you found best with the UR and which DAC you do use with it?
Thank you :)
I use a modified Linear PSU. Adjusted to 8V.

I know folks who are using the Sonore Ultrarendu Signature / SE deluxe and are very happy with them.

I use the DIYaudio Najda 4 in 8 out DSP XO that has 4 DACs.
Without DSP none of the time / phase alignment / usual steep order crossover avoidance needed for Synergy horn set ups would be possible.

The trick is finding one that is transparent to digital and analogue signal inputs.
Najda is that.

The DAC implementation in Najda is extremely good. Played off against $$$$'s DACs by several and it held it's own / won.
The low hanging in Najda was the easily interchangeable OPamps.
I've got the original and arguably the sweetest sounding Burson dual OPamps in there. Required 6 of.
 
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