A remarkable Redbook CD afternoon at Goodwin's High End

[jfrech]

Al.....Have you also considered the Rossini player ? Alan Sircom for one still favours the laser over the file.

http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/dcs-rossini-disc-player-and-clock/?page=3

I was very much of the same mind, in that HiRez file > DAC was the way I saw myself going, However several hours of A/Bing the variables via a full Vivaldi stack has me uncomfortably juggling figures around my Swede in incorporating a player Rossini or Player Vivaldi as apposed to DAC alone.

I've done a lot of experimenting here. Mostly with ECM recordings like John Abercrombie 39 steps for example. So 16/44 vs 24/88 (as high of res I could find on this title). I do think I can eek out a bit more resolution with the download...but there is something "right" about physical media. More of a weight to the notes and a flow (maybe prat better said). That said, both sound really good and you can drive yourself a bit nuts on this. Plus the filters and such can also play a role.

My dealer rec'd his Rossini player and clock yesterday. I've heard his Scarlatti stack for years in his system. I'll say simply I was very impressed with the Rossini. I can't wait to hear it after it has more playing time...but already I know it's quite a digital front end and I now know why Peter and Al were so impressed with it.

 

[Al M.]

Al.....Have you also considered the Rossini player ? Alan Sircom for one still favours the laser over the file.

http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/dcs-rossini-disc-player-and-clock/?page=3

I was very much of the same mind, in that HiRez file > DAC was the way I saw myself going, However several hours of A/Bing the variables via a full Vivaldi stack has me uncomfortably juggling figures around my Swede in incorporating a player Rossini or Player Vivaldi as apposed to DAC alone.

You confirm what I heard from several people now, that on the Vivaldi digital from its transport sounds best, as opposed to file. I find Alan Sircom's findings regarding the Rossini player intriguing also because he was an early file adopter. Yet the question remains how optimized his file playback is; I would guess that something like a Baetis server via AES/EBU input might be best for files.

Yes, I did consider the Rossini Player; in fact, I have stated in my opening post that this would be my preferred option. While the transport of the Rossini may not be of the same caliber as the Vivaldi transport, an integrated player may offer the advantage of shortest and possibly best-matched pathway between transport and DAC.

 

[Al M.]

John, our posts crossed. What you say about weight and flow via transport sounds intriguing. It would be interesting to know how 16/44 via Vivaldi transport compares to 16/44 via file.

I would say about 98 % of the music/performances that I listen to, classical, classical avantgarde and (avantgarde) jazz, is only available in 16/44 format. So if playback of the physical CD is best for that, it's a no-brainer for me.

 

[Al M.]

Thank you, Peter, for your posts from today. You summarize very well the important ways in which our thinking about audio is alike.

 

[adyc]

As I also said in my opening post:

"The string instruments sounded more wooden, and there was more resolution. It just was a more natural sound from the start."

"The naturalness of sound through the dCS Rossini was really stunning. Importantly, it was not achieved through any smoothing of sound. While the tone of string quartets, due to the lack of artifacts, sounded much more 'well-behaved', in a good way, than I had ever heard before from digital, there was also a lot more of rough 'shredding' of sound through the cornet (a sister of the trumpet) than I had heard before on that great jazz recording. All the natural timbre of instruments simply came through to a much greater extent, and reminded me much more of live music."

What makes me intrigued of this DAC is your comments of the reproduction of wooden tone of violin. So far, I never heard any digital system, either my home setup or dealers' showroom, that makes violin sound like the real thing. I need to pay a visit to dCS dealer to listen to Rossini.

 

[Andrew Stenhouse]

Thank you for this clarification, Al.

It has been a fascinating week......... and it got me thinking about how we, as a community of music lovers and audiophiles, misinterpret each other's comments and how we form entrenched camps to emphasize differences and to clarify positions.

When Al and I audition a component, we are not asking ourselves if the DAC sounds like analog to us, we are asking ourselves if it sounds like real music to us. If the goal is to get some semblance of what we hear live into our listening rooms, then, what matters is knowing what live music sounds like, and then spending one's time to find the right gear and setting it up properly. If this past week of listening has taught me anything, it is that arguments about dogma are a distraction. I have now heard digital sound convincing, and that has caused me to pause, to reflect, and to celebrate the possibilities.

Great post! As Ron commented, it is beautifully written. Bravo. In fact what a great thread. Bravo to Al & Peter both.

If I may add that one of the difficulties with the whole notion of "accuracy" as a commendable attribute in a system, is that it assumes an untampered chain of custody between the performance and the recording we are given of it. What is released to market is the sum product of recording editing and production; this may or may not reflect accurately the actual performance given. Unless you were there, and so can comment, all we ever get is a facsimile of the event. And why should that facsimile not be as enjoyable as possible? After all, that is why we listen to music. For the enjoyment it delivers.

I suppose this thought can be summarised thus: accuracy of what?

For my part, I have limited resources. I cannot afford a high-ish level of both digital and vinyl replay. After my recent experiences with DSD, I have returned to vinyl as my sole playback medium. Simply because it gives me more pleasure than digital. Instruments sound like instruments to me when played back even on a modest analogue rig. And, for my part, there is a magic in handling an LP, reading the liner notes, and handling the physical media, for all its quirks and inconveniences.

I thought (think) DSD played back via the Merging + Nadac was the best digital I had heard to date bar none. The sense of space and ease it gave to the performance was very like that I associate with vinyl. Timbral accuracy was close to that achieved by vinyl, but was still a little lacking in some areas. But its performance was limited in my respectful opinion to DSD. I found it wanting (I think I said it was "ordinary") with PCM esp redbook.

What is so exciting about this report, is that dCS appear (and I have no reason to question Al & Peter's opinion, quite the reverse) to have moved redbook forward to a position of ascendancy in respect of digital reproduction. Given the vast amount of 16/44 out there, this can only be regarded with the utmost enthusiasm as the very welcome development it is. The future is indeed bright for all music lovers and audiophiles.

Incidentally for CD's of classical and jazz, the Pathos Endorphin is also a very special CD player. It nails timbre beautifully. Rare, and quirky, it is a lovely piece of kit. Good value for our European friends on the used market.

 

[adyc]

I have to say this site is now better now after recent bickerings. It is more civilised and people respect each other opinion. No more "let wait until one upsamples to DSD 256 using HQPlayer" stuff like that.

 

[Andrew Stenhouse]

I have to say this site is now better now after recent bickerings. It is more civilised and people respect each other opinion. No more "let wait until one upsamples to DSD 256 using HQPlayer" stuff like that.

I agree.

 

[Rotatoubib]

Hello! Did someone compared the Rossini player or Dac to Esoteric K01 X? I have seen very good reviews about it, and it can read Sacd

 

[the sound of Tao]

More great writing from the boys from Boston, thanks Al and Peter for bringing your Rossini experiences to life. You go to such effort to describe it fully and unfortunately make it sound way too tempting. Great read, much appreciated.

 

[PeterA]

More great writing from the boys from Boston, thanks Al and Peter for bringing your Rossini experiences to life. You go to such effort to describe it fully and unfortunately make it sound way too tempting. Great read, much appreciated.

Thanks Tao. Yes, it is a tempting DAC and it was both a joy and a wonderful learning experience to accompany Al to this audition.

 

[Al M.]

Thanks Tao. Yes, it is a tempting DAC and it was both a joy and a wonderful learning experience to accompany Al to this audition.

Yes, thanks Tao, too. It is such a tempting DAC that I am already mulling scenarios how I can purchase it sooner rather than later...I just cannot believe the entire system in fact, the chain dCS Rossini/Spectral/Magico Q1. I was thinking today how colorful everything sounded, next to all the things already discussed. That colorfulness also reminds me very much of live music.

I am so glad, Peter, that you were with me at the audition. While there, you pointed me to important things to listen for which I probably would not have paid attention to on my own. And it was great to have confirmation about the performance of the DAC from you as listener to analog only at home.

 

[Al M.]

Regardless, music is music. Even though that recording of Bartok's violin sonatas does not sound nearly as good at home as at Goodwin's, the fact that the interpretation is fantastic comes through in spades, and I have spent a good amount of time today exploring the music more in depth. It is so easy to glance over the intricacies of the composition, and trying to get a grasp of both the large-scale form and all the compositional detail and magic of the moment at the same time is a challenge. But it is more than worth it, these are absolutely amazing and fascinating compositions, with a lot of thought that went into them. Consummate masterpieces from one of the greatest 20th century composers.

 

[Enatai252]

Rossini DAC and clock delivered. With a few cables

 

[Al M.]

Congratulations! Please let us know your experiences with the sound once broken in.

 

[amirm]

Wow. Christmas in February as we say here. Congrats. Must be exciting.

 

[Blizzard]

We all benefit when Al M and PeterA so eloquently convey their impressions. They are both careful listeners and skilled writers.

I would love to hear the Rossini in my system; there is a good chance it will be my next DAC.

If you get a chance to compare the HQplayer/NADAC combo playing redbook resampled to quad DSD, with the Rossini in your system please share the results. The version with the CD transport would be awesome because you could compare it playing CD's, and lossless FLAC rips of the same CD processed through Roon/HQplayer/NADAC. An easy switch of the input select on the preamp to compare. Just need to ensure the levels are matched.

 

[Fiddle Faddle]

Enatai252,

Fantastic! It is a little ironic that gear worth as much as a luxury car comes packed in two cardboard boxes and the cables in a wooden one! (yes, I realise they are extremely well packed nonetheless).

I don't want to divert the thread too much, but was that your personal specific choice of cables or was it something recommended to you that synergises with the dCS gear?

 

[Fiddle Faddle]

What makes me intrigued of this DAC is your comments of the reproduction of wooden tone of violin. So far, I never heard any digital system, either my home setup or dealers' showroom, that makes violin sound like the real thing. I need to pay a visit to dCS dealer to listen to Rossini.

I haven't either. But then again I have never heard anything analogue get it completely right either, so in my opinion and experience it is a problem with any method of sound reproduction. I have found that the best analogue and the best digital bring different and equally valid strengths to violin reproduction, yet each have their weaknesses too. 16 bit hurts violin sound a lot. I did hear a 24/96 Chandos recording of Tasmin Little on a dCS stack last year and it was very good, however the recording itself was a little bit limiting in my opinion.

 

[Purite Audio]

I haven't either. But then again I have never heard anything analogue get it completely right either, so in my opinion and experience it is a problem with any method of sound reproduction. I have found that the best analogue and the best digital bring different and equally valid strengths to violin reproduction, yet each have their weaknesses too. 16 bit hurts violin sound a lot. I did hear a 24/96 Chandos recording of Tasmin Little on a dCS stack last year and it was very good, however the recording itself was a little bit limiting in my opinion.

Do you know anyone who plays the violin, try recording them playing in your listening room, I am sure you would find the results interesting, make several recordings only altering microphone position.
Keith.