A Visit To Bobby B's House--for an afternoon of high end listening and life expansion

[ddk]

Where are the Mooks? Wooden panels on the wall are Mook?

Tang

The wood panels and resonators are part of the Shun Mook concept you'll see it on their website but what's not visible in the pict are the two rare Mook racks on either side of the American Sound. They are incredible looking, probably the most beautiful racks I've seen.

david

 

[ddk]

Thanks David, the words of Russ and Marty gain some significance with your photo of this great looking room!

As an owner of two F113's mmk2, can I ask why you disagree with the use of JL Audio in Russ system and seem to not disagree with them in this system?

I really dislike them in this system too, they muddy the sound even at their lowest low level that Russ mentioned. Usually they're off when I'm there!

david

 

[Al M.]

I really dislike them in this system too, they muddy the sound even at their lowest low level that Russ mentioned. Usually they're off when I'm there!

david

I have my JL Audio F112v2 standing on ASC SubTraps. Without these and with the subs sitting on the floor the sound would be muddy; I know this from my previous sub. It depends of course on the floor you have. I have wood floor that shakes with bass.

With SubTraps I have clean, fast, resolved bass from the JL Audios.

 

[bonzo75]

Where are the Mooks? Wooden panels on the wall are Mook?

Tang

The panels plus the black mpingo discs that you see on them

 

[ddk]

I have my JL Audio F112v2 standing on ASC SubTraps. Without these and with the subs sitting on the floor the sound would be muddy; I know this from my previous sub. It depends of course on the floor you have. I have wood floor that shakes with bass.

With SubTraps I have clean, fast, resolved bass from the JL Audios.

You also have monitors, in this room with full range speakers they can cancel out some of the low bass.

david

 

[microstrip]

I really dislike them in this system too, they muddy the sound even at their lowest low level that Russ mentioned. Usually they're off when I'm there!

david

Thanks. Just found at the manufacturer site that those Kharma are specified at 91 db/W. Curious that an ML3 can drive them so well.

 

[ddk]

Thanks. Just found at the manufacturer site that those Kharma are specified at 91 db/W. Curious that an ML3 can drive them so well.

In isolation sensitivity figures are just a starting point there are other factors including driver design that affect the sound and true sensitivity of the speaker. This pair has Kharma's F proprietary drivers which are incredibly fast and light, the largest woofers weigh about 3-4kg including the basket and magnet. I heard this speaker at CES 2017 in our room for the first time and was surprised how well they paired with the ML3, I haven't had them side by side but I'm pretty certain that they're easier to drive than the 96db Wilsons.

david

 

[Al M.]

You also have monitors, in this room with full range speakers they can cancel out some of the low bass.

david

You mean that the subs cancel out the low bass from the main speakers? How would that muddy the sound? I would imagine that doubling of the bass would be more problematic in that respect.

 

[ddk]

You mean that the subs cancel out the low bass from the main speakers? How would that muddy the sound? I would imagine that doubling of the bass would be more problematic in that respect.

Yes. Subs muddy up the mids and highs with loss of definition.

david

 

[Al M.]

Yes. Subs muddy up the mids and highs with loss of definition.

david

Sorry, this doesn't exactly answer my question.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Thanks. Just found at the manufacturer site that those Kharma are specified at 91 db/W. Curious that an ML3 can drive them so well.

I had the 91db efficient Kharma Exquisite Ref 1D's (likely almost the same situation as these Kharma's) in a similar sized room with 75 watt Tenor OTL's (likely similar in power to the ML3's) and they were very lively and energetic. it's a simple first order crossover and overall the sound was free, open and coherent.

OTOH those Tenor's did detonate a few times and take out the ceramic mid-range drivers. made for some excitement. but that's a less than completely sorted out OTL for you.

my point being that this combination does work in the right room.

 

[ddk]

Sorry, this doesn't exactly answer my question.

What did I miss Al? In this room I find the subs canceling out the low bass from the main speakers and muddy mid & upper frequencies but owner likes using them now & then, they round off and warm up the mids.

david

 

[Al M.]

What did I miss Al? In this room I find the subs canceling out the low bass from the main speakers and muddy mid & upper frequencies but owner likes using them now & then, they round off and warm up the mids.

david

Ok, but what does the canceling out of the low bass from the main speakers by the subs have to do with muddying up mid & upper frequencies?

BTW, rounding off and warming up mids by the subs? Not something that I'd want. I need maximum resolution. Fortunately, in my system the subs don't pose that problem.

 

[ddk]

Ok, but what does the canceling out of the low bass from the main speakers by the subs have to do with muddying up mid & upper frequencies?

BTW, rounding off and warming up mids by the subs? Not something that I'd want. I need maximum resolution. Fortunately, in my system the subs don't pose that problem.

The muddying up isn't caused by the bass cancellation but both are symptoms of the subs. I don't like the added warmth either but not my room and my friend enjoys it at times.

david

 

[Argonaut]

OTOH those Tenor's did detonate a few times and take out the ceramic mid-range drivers. made for some excitement. but that's a less than completely sorted out OTL for you..

Something to Concider Kedar !

 

[bonzo75]

Something to Concider Kedar !

I know this already. Hence I the question marks in my signature

 

[ddk]

I had the 91db efficient Kharma Exquisite Ref 1D's (likely almost the same situation as these Kharma's) in a similar sized room with 75 watt Tenor OTL's (likely similar in power to the ML3's) and they were very lively and energetic. it's a simple first order crossover and overall the sound was free, open and coherent.

OTOH those Tenor's did detonate a few times and take out the ceramic mid-range drivers. made for some excitement. but that's a less than completely sorted out OTL for you.

my point being that this combination does work in the right room.

As fond as I was of the Exquisites we both owned Mike these are a lot easier to drive much livelier and more dynamic speaker, they sound quite different too.

david

 

[DaveC]

They are incredible looking, probably the most beautiful racks I've seen.

david

A little OT for this forum, but ok.


Thanks for the pic, it is a beautiful room!

 

[Al M.]

The muddying up isn't caused by the bass cancellation but both are symptoms of the subs. I don't like the added warmth either but not my room and my friend enjoys it at times.

david

Ok, thanks for clarification.

 

[Rodney Gold]

Wonderful write up , that room/system looks great..

As to bass / subs... mobius , you being a G3 vivid owner ... a set of G1's spirits is the answer..no subs required..ever!!!