A Visit To Bobby B's House--for an afternoon of high end listening and life expansion
- Thread starter Mobiusman
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Quick question before returning to the main system here...what crossover level do you use on your JLs? I have great things about the ASC...but i cut the Velodyne's above 40hz (36db slope so relatively steep). The measurements and reviews seem to focus on reducing blur and excess energy above 50hz-90hz...if i play music this sub is often off until you get the call for the whallop.
Thanks for any guidance on this.
Well, that's kind of interesting. Even though I have monitors, with my previous REL Storm III the crossover was at 41 Hz, and I don't know the slope. With the JL Audios it's different. They suggest crossover at 80 (!) Hz (for any speaker that is, not just monitors), and I said: What?
But then I tried it, and I actually like 80 Hz quite well, better than lower frequencies. With the REL I would have gotten unbearable mid-bass boom at that high of a cross-over frequency (50 Hz was already bad). And the fun part is, I use the shallow 12dB/octave slope on the JL Audio, the 24 dB slope was too sudden for me (again, this is with monitors, not full-range speakers). Even with all that, I have no fouling up of the mid-range with the JL Audio, at least not one that I perceive. So I am a bit puzzled myself, I may say.
[Since I have only a medium-sized room I use low frequency trim (at 24 Hz) of -8 dB from neutral. Glad that JL Audio offers that option of trimming, recommended for small to medium-sized rooms, since otherwise with some recordings I would have run into trouble (unpleasant temporal smear on certain drum recordings, for example).]
Again, I do think the ASC SubTraps are mandatory. Unfortunately, for big subs like also the JL Gotham the SubTrap may be either too small (even in the 22 inch version) or may not be able to carry the weight (max. 250 pounds, the Gotham is 360 pounds).
Very interesting...thanks. Yes, before we moved house, we found 30hz to be a difficult spot and toned it down as well. But here we have let it run full throttle and so far so good...continuing to refine as we get to know the room. I would have loved to have tried the JLs but Velodyne provides great service here, and have always looked after us. And the Velodyne DD-18+ offers a lot of flexibility in setup which is also relative easy to use/customize.
I am intrigued that JL like 80hz for all speakers...i think Steve uses them now with his big Wilsons...but cuts them off above 38-41 hz as i recall which is how Wilson recommend subs be integrated...whom to believe...Wilson or JL? In my case, with Velodyne, 40hz works well.
For full-range speakers like Steve's Wilsons an 80 Hz cut-off almost certainly would not work. With my monitors it does. Is it the best? Don't know yet, I may end up at 70 Hz or so, have to play around more (I like 80 Hz better than 55 Hz which I also tried). But I'll wait with fine-tuning until the break-in phase of my new gear is over.
As I have let my subs (and ear) settle in and really listen over the course of months...i generally have found after several months, i tend to end up sightly lowering the crossover and adding just a touch more volume. that's just my own experience with my own setups.
FWIW, I’m embarrassed to admit my integral Zu subs have been crossed too high.
I’ve been irritated by smeared opaque mids and lack of treble air, esp off lp, for quite a while.
So, dropped the crossover from 40Hz to 30Hz, and level from 5/10 to 3-4/10.
One of the biggest positive changes I’ve wrought, w the big bonus of costing precisely £/$/€/¥0.00
I’ve been irritated by smeared opaque mids and lack of treble air, esp off lp, for quite a while.
So, dropped the crossover from 40Hz to 30Hz, and level from 5/10 to 3-4/10.
One of the biggest positive changes I’ve wrought, w the big bonus of costing precisely £/$/€/¥0.00
It's a problem of phase... all phase. Well placement and directions matter too. There is a way to integrate, and a zillion ways not to integrate.
I agree of course. My experience comes from eliminating parasitic and completely uncontrolled bass and ULF artefacts.
Cheers,
It is a common thing to set the subs too high in FR cut off. I guess you have set the phase already? Often it is 180° from the main speakers.
My humble system with a Velodyne sub, it has a test cycle with a mic and it runs various weird sound waves for about 5 minutes, then sets itself at a (in theory) level response in it's range (16hz - 100hz).
Then I played with various music types for weeks till I got the level (volume) and FR curve (cut off) right to integrate. I have mine set about 40hz. The curve start to roll off above that, so in effect I get assistance above that to possibly 60-65hz, but down to 16hz.
Once you get is close, run some frequency sweeps at normal levels, test for any peaks and troughs and try and hear where the mains drop away and the sub comes in. You are aiming for a seamless transition, no increase in level or drop outs.
Another aspect with bass and sub bass is room nodes. These have marked effects on bass level depending where you are sat and where you place the mains and sub/s. It is best to be bold, experiment and then get close to what to want, then fine tune (tiny adjustments). And when you check the sound, be sure to sit bang on in your hot seat, not nearer the gear to fiddle with the settings, as the bass will be way out at that position IMO.
Good luck, it is worth the hassle. A sub is for foundation I think, not extra level of increase in bass quantity generally, rather a smooth FR down to the floor boards (and beyond). I am a fan of subs, even with big speakers as mains.
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