Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
David's room is huge but would still benefit from slightly higher ceiling as well as another 15 feet in both length and width
A visit to DDk's
- Thread starter bonzo75
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David's room is huge but would still benefit from slightly higher ceiling as well as another 15 feet in both length and width
There is now a reproduction of the Neumann being made. I heard it briefly and it's worth a further look. Have t heard the original in some time some won't make that comparison.
Beau
Ah yes but be thankful they aware of those "technical Issues" at McCarran --
rather than over the North Pole!
Bruced
Ked, you mentioned that you listened to the Koestu Rosewood. Is this the cart you heard or was it the Rosewood Signature or even better, the Rosewood Signature Platinum. There is a pretty big difference between these versions. The RSP is by far the lowest output and to most..the best sounding. The Rosewood Signature is much less resolving and IMO the old Rosewood even less so!
bonzo, Do you think the big vintage horns sound most realistic with certain kinds of music rather than other kinds of music?
For example, do you think the big vintage horns playing a solo vocalist with acoustic accompaniment are more convincing than ML electrostatics or Analysis Audio ribbon panels playing the same music?
For example, do you think the big vintage horns playing a solo vocalist with acoustic accompaniment are more convincing than ML electrostatics or Analysis Audio ribbon panels playing the same music?
Koetsu cartridges had an high variation in sound along the time - I owned a Rosewood Signature and an Onyx from the late 80's and it sounds quite different from the current ones. Knowing David love for vintage I would not be astonished if his cartridges are old versions.
BTW does any one know of any site having a detailed chronology of all the Koetsu models? Unfortunately vinylengine.com does not include cartridges.
To start with, there is a much larger difference between horns than between boxes. Stats are actually extremely similar except for some differences which are minor in nature. There is no similarity to the sound between Cessaro, Tune Audio Anima, Trios, etc. A guy who likes Cessaro could like the Logans and not the Anima. The variations in bass, tone, everything, are massive.
Now to vintage horns, which are again different sounding from some other horns. I have heard only two - WE and Bionor. I am not a fan of the K2 or Pro JBL series, haven't heard the vintage. I loved a DIY JBL horn though.
It will be impossible for a stat or analysis to touch the midrange magic of a vintage horn done right. To start with, the valves used, whether David's Lamms or the WE 300bs (at Munich, you might get to hear the WE 300As, each valve costing 15K USD) itself will do more magic than any amp that can drive a panel. Not to mention the speaker midrange itself. Also, these speakers are made for TT playback. Somehow both on Bionors and WE, I did not like digital playback, and even one a 2k DIY TT, the WE made me melt.
I have heard WE both with Line Magnetic and GIP drivers, and you need GIP to get the magic.
I have not heard other vintage horns made from Altec so can't say about those, but they will sound very different. There is a lot of DIY with Altecs too so there will be many differences.
There is the driver, the shape of the horn used, and the crossovers and material. The WE for example are usually made of wood except for the 16A which is made from metal. I love their metal zing on strings.
This particular aspect worries me. As far as I remember you are mainly a digital (Lampizator) listener. Did you ever experience this "natural sound" you refer with digital and vintage horns or panels?
Which begs the question If I may bonzo, which, if any of the horns that you mention reproduce IYO the closest approximation to the origional Artist/Recording? Ergo those that do not, are they so artificial in accuracy of Tone, Texture, Harmnics etc, etc, etc, to be regarded as massive tone controls ?, albe it pleasing on the ear.
Would you say that the metallic nature of the 16A is incapable of accurately reproducing the harmonic signature of an gut stringed Instrument?
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Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
David told me that the wood baffles even make a difference as he had commissioned a master carpenter to make an extra set(s) of baffles from different woods as well as using different glues. Try as he did, he could never make the Bionor sound the same with anything but the original baffles
Well I never heard them on the Lampi. The Munich WE room has a dcs Scarlatti, but the Thomas Schick idler TT takes the system to another level. The WE 16A room has a cheap CDP, but also a low cost DIY TT. David has CEC TLO transport going into Weiss.
I always enjoyed digital but after finding Lampi I lost interest in digital. There was nothing more to upgrade to, and in hifi, not having the next search can be a bit boring. My digital and tweak itch is now totally scratched, and I have tried a lot of cables, and while I can't say I know of a final cable, I have lot intensity in the cable search.
So my OCD has turned to vinyl. And yes, the natural sound is higher in vinyl, the tone of violin, the fluidity, and the ability to tweak is huge. The Lampi is closest though. Audiophile Bill is a more seasoned vinyl listener than I and also owns the Lampi, so he can tell you more. He used to be a semi pro first trombonist and also has a classical ear.
But I can't resist the sound of analog at all now. The one place where digital wins is Mahler, it usually sounds a bit compressed on vinyl. Also the Lampi can give a different soundstage to many TTs which is enjoyable. Bill does play vinyl rips through his Lampi.
The only worrying thing is that the cost of setting up an analog rig from scratch (TT, arms, carts, phono) exceeds the cost of a system with more potential for errors. Digital and amps are so easy to research and compare. Even with speakers, I am getting quite comfortable with my choices at medium and long-term price points.
A panel gives a very natural sound, and it is not required to upgrade from there unless you have a lot of money and want the best. Bionors and WE require a lot of space and budget. WE 16A is medium priced but not available used and requires less space. Don't forget that David owned a lot of apogees before his Bionors
The 16A sound fantastic on strings, but I read that there were people who preferred the wood only or the metal only, while some like me would just love to have both. All horns do things differently - you need to listen to different ones. For example, I love the trios with bass horns because of the scale, dynamics, and large staging and imaging of an orchestra. It does not have the tone of a panel or a WE/Bionor. Yet I like it. Realism comes through different things - Multichannel gives me realism through concert hall feel and more space and depth, taking the room out, and good imaging. Vinyl because of tone and fluidity.
Kudos Bonzo--you followed the Yellow Brick Road!
BruceD
Yes, the Audio Yellow Brick Road definitely goes through Utah, somehow meanders up to Seattle, and then turns around to So. California and a few other places
Every single day I visit WBF and look for David; but he's nowhere to be found.
See, I grew up with analog music...turntables and albums (LPs & 45s), and for over 45 years+ it has always remain my world of origin and deepest music passion.
Sure, physically and in real life it has been eclipsed to a certain extent by the digital world; but no one can never take away all the sex that TTs provide.
It's a way of speech, to describe the deep satisfaction of emotional comfort zone...like an orgasm.
Put Pink Floyd's Wish You Were Here album for a spin, crank the volume up to eleven, don't sit down, lay down on the couch, with your better half, or favorite mistress.
I like David, I can learn from him...
See, I grew up with analog music...turntables and albums (LPs & 45s), and for over 45 years+ it has always remain my world of origin and deepest music passion.
Sure, physically and in real life it has been eclipsed to a certain extent by the digital world; but no one can never take away all the sex that TTs provide.
It's a way of speech, to describe the deep satisfaction of emotional comfort zone...like an orgasm.
Put Pink Floyd's Wish You Were Here album for a spin, crank the volume up to eleven, don't sit down, lay down on the couch, with your better half, or favorite mistress.
I like David, I can learn from him...
Curiously one of my current interests, and I spent a lot of time and resources carrying it, is looking for systems that also make digital sound natural. After a long search, I went back to the Soundlab's because it is a speaker that can sound really great with digital according to my preferences.
I wrote a similar comment about vinyl, replacing Mahler with Shostakovitch ... Or any composer that includes orchestral fortissimos in the end of the LP side, where the linear velocity is minimal.
BTW, we should not forget that David advice for natural sound with analog includes some UK vintage that is not too expensive ...
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