A visit to DDk's

[bonzo75]

I second this question!

(Was it the Analysis Audio Omegas that reproduced for you piano convincingly?)

With NATs they did with SS they didn't. Also that was digital 2 years ago and this is vinyl. There was much more going on here, the cartridge also mattered so much and the TT

 

[LL21]

Those in Europe should spend some time in the Munich western electric Silbatone room and visit Leipzig to listen to western electric 16a with GIP drivers to get a feel of this - all this sound is different from modern hifi and nothing in our normal experience prepares us to listen to vintage music. The people who have the costliest systems have vintage hifi, after having done the curve of hifi magazine reviewed brands. The Hyundai billionaire can buy all the systems on this forum for breakfast, but chooses to go WE. With cables $5 per m.

I think the challenge for many of us is the space, the ones in DDKs rooms seem H-U-G-E beyond belief. As much as I would love to contemplate such a system...the big Wilsons have a 16" x 24" footprint and can sometimes work well tucked back (a bit) in corners. Thus, while the SOTA stuff like Arrakis, 4-tower Pendragons might be way more expensive, the question is are they producing something still-pretty-phenomenal while also being able to be more practical in many people's homes where, despite the insane cost of hifi, the real estate can sometimes cost way more (or it seriously impractical to move or build).

it is in this regard that i give a lot of credit to designers like David Wilson who have managed to create a speaker that reproduces much of music very well, while remaining within a cubic area that fits in a lot more homes/spaces (not to mention its adjustability to those many homes/spaces).

 

[Steve williams]

With NATs they did with SS they didn't. Also that was digital 2 years ago and this is vinyl. There was much more going on here, the cartridge also mattered so much and the TT

That Neumann cartridge he uses is a gem

 

[KeithR]

nice writeup Bonzo. i'd love a trip to Utah to hear the behemoths some day.

as much as I enjoy reading your stories, i'll make one suggestion though- audio shouldn't be that difficult, man. at some point you just have to step up and buy some gear and be happy. nobody can hear every iteration of analog for instance. too many variables involved and at some point its counterproductive. just relax and enjoy the music

 

[Steve williams]

I think the challenge for many of us is the space, the ones in DDKs rooms seem H-U-G-E beyond belief. As much as I would love to contemplate such a system...the big Wilsons have a 16" x 24" footprint and can sometimes work well tucked back (a bit) in corners. Thus, while the SOTA stuff like Arrakis, 4-tower Pendragons might be way more expensive, the question is are they producing something still-pretty-phenomenal while also being able to be more practical in many people's homes where, despite the insane cost of hifi, the real estate can sometimes cost way more (or it seriously impractical to move or build).

it is in this regard that i give a lot of credit to designers like David Wilson who have managed to create a speaker that reproduces much of music very well, while remaining within a cubic area that fits in a lot more homes/spaces (not to mention its adjustability to those many homes/spaces).

I can't disagree Lloyd but once someone hears David's system, IMO everything else becomes a runner up. One must hear and experience it to truly understand how amazing these speakers are with the Lamm electronics

 

[bonzo75]

nice writeup Bonzo. i'd love a trip to Utah to hear the behemoths some day.

as much as I enjoy reading your stories, i'll make one suggestion though- audio shouldn't be that difficult, man. at some point you just have to step up and buy some gear and be happy. nobody can hear every iteration of analog for instance. too many variables involved and at some point its counterproductive. just enjoy the music.

I never said it was difficult. It is very enjoyable. I am cutting through years of experience and upgraditis issues. I enjoy music on concert halls, over 50 concerts a year, and don't need this hobby to listen to music. I am in this hobby because I have my own OCD like everyone else on this forum

 

[bonzo75]

I think the challenge for many of us is the space, the ones in DDKs rooms seem H-U-G-E beyond belief. As much as I would love to contemplate such a system...the big Wilsons have a 16" x 24" footprint and can sometimes work well tucked back (a bit) in corners. Thus, while the SOTA stuff like Arrakis, 4-tower Pendragons might be way more expensive, the question is are they producing something still-pretty-phenomenal while also being able to be more practical in many people's homes where, despite the insane cost of hifi, the real estate can sometimes cost way more (or it seriously impractical to move or build).

it is in this regard that i give a lot of credit to designers like David Wilson who have managed to create a speaker that reproduces much of music very well, while remaining within a cubic area that fits in a lot more homes/spaces (not to mention its adjustability to those many homes/spaces).

Lloyd, visit Leipzig...it is easy...compare it to any Wilson or Rockport sound. Also the WE 16a needs to be set up on one small wall, and can address one person in a small room or 800 people in a theatre with equal ease, at 180 degrees off axis

 

[NorthStar]

I am in such a nasty mood I feel like derailing this thread by saying we put the CD into his Weiss dac and it all sounded the same

You already did.

* I don't know if David already know but he would be an excellent contributor ? www.audionirvana.org

P.S. Yes, he already know ...

 

[MadFloyd]

Great report, Ked! I am in awe of the commitment you have made. I don't know of anything as informative as being afforded the opportunities to hear a series of great home systems. I think it is a smart investment and through your efforts to document it we all learn something and of course, are entertained.

 

[bonzo75]

Great report, Ked! I am in awe of the commitment you have made. I don't know of anything as informative as being afforded the opportunities to hear a series of great home systems. I think it is a smart investment and through your efforts to document it we all learn something and of course, are entertained.

Yeah this is all entertainment. I think this trip more than paid for itself, I am new to analog and cut through so much with such trips

 

[microstrip]

I think the challenge for many of us is the space, the ones in DDKs rooms seem H-U-G-E beyond belief. As much as I would love to contemplate such a system...the big Wilsons have a 16" x 24" footprint and can sometimes work well tucked back (a bit) in corners. Thus, while the SOTA stuff like Arrakis, 4-tower Pendragons might be way more expensive, the question is are they producing something still-pretty-phenomenal while also being able to be more practical in many people's homes where, despite the insane cost of hifi, the real estate can sometimes cost way more (or it seriously impractical to move or build).

it is in this regard that i give a lot of credit to designers like David Wilson who have managed to create a speaker that reproduces much of music very well, while remaining within a cubic area that fits in a lot more homes/spaces (not to mention its adjustability to those many homes/spaces).

Lloyd,

We would be comparing apples with oranges. Once you experience such different type of sound, your references become different. Even the Soundlab A1 Px, within their dynamic range limitations and when properly matched, manage to recreate a completely different type of sound reproduction - the way " there is music everywhere" bonzo refers is another league. Probably it is also due to the way they couple to the air mass of the room. Transients seem faster and more powerful without being loud, you have more record information without boundaries effect, but without reducing the stage.

From what I guess, both the Bionors and the WE16A very high-efficiency speakers have higher dynamic range than the Soundlab's. Although the Soundlab's are huge they can can play perfectly in a 25 square meter room - I once had the smaller A4 in a 15 square meter office with great success.

In the end, it is mostly a matter of personnel preference. How success in achieving this state of listening depends on the quality and technique of the recording is still an open question for me . But once you see that dark side it is not easy to come back.

 

[bonzo75]

My point is that people should look at different points of reference. A Wilson focal Rockport is one type. Panels are another. Horns (and there are many different sounds here), multichannel set ups, room corrected set ups.

The western electrics at Munich are very different to any other room there

 

[Zero000]

I freakin' hope this year's Munich Silbatone set up hits the standard of 2014, for all those who have never heard WE systems before. Or GIP ones. Whilst 2011 WE 16A was great, I rate 2014's set up above it.

 

[bonzo75]

I freakin' hope this year's Munich Silbatone set up hits the standard of 2014, for all those who have never heard WE systems before. Or GIP ones. Whilst 2011 WE 16A was great, I rate 2014's set up above it.

Yes I mentioned 16a because they are available to listen throughout the year in Leipzig depending on the owner's availability

 

[LL21]

Steve, Micro and Bonzo,

thanks for those comments, each of you. I know i have to hear these mighty Bionors someday...and probably revisit big, big panels again as well.

 

[Steve williams]

Steve, Micro and Bonzo,

thanks for those comments, each of you. I know i have to hear these mighty Bionors someday...and probably revisit big, big panels again as well.

Everyone who has visited David have commented that there is no sweet spot but perfect sound everywhere in the room.

 

[c1ferrari]

Great thread...thanks, Ked, for providing us a vicarious experience through your audio senses and journey

 

[KeithR]

Everyone who has visited David have commented that there is no sweet spot but perfect sound everywhere in the room.

Is that because it's almost an infinite baffle speaker/setup?

 

[microstrip]

Is that because it's almost an infinite baffle speaker/setup?

Just for those wanting to know the exact dimensions of the Bionors ~ 98.425 inches wide.

Fortunately I do not have the space - there is currently a pair of KL405 Klangfilm speakers for sale in Germany - only two and the tweeters would be missing!

 

[LL21]

Everyone who has visited David have commented that there is no sweet spot but perfect sound everywhere in the room.

I can quite imagine...sounds remarkable. At 8' wide each speaker, according to Micro, that still has to be a big room!