Alsyvox planars...prepare to sell your Magico's, YG's, Wilson's, Cessaro's. Maggie's, and all others!!

[Believe High Fidelity]

Far be it for me to sound self promoting, but a horn speaker, like the Symphonia,\ would be ideal for that provided the 30 sq meters room is all listening area. Stay far away from single driver designs

 

[Moiz Audio]

To listen to orchestral music in a room of 30 square meters, what speaker technology do you think is the best?

Wharfdale type open baffles...

 

[morricab]

To listen to orchestral music in a room of 30 square meters, what speaker technology do you think is the best?

Moderate sized horns would work well in a room that size as would fairly large planars...both of which can do classical well.

 

[dr k]

It is to bad gwalt did not have the opportunity to audition the GT Audioworks System at almost 75% less than the Botticelli’s.
We have had customers come to audition them and ultimately purchase them from all over the US and overseas. See below Facebook link where some of our customers systems are on video along with rave reviews.
https://www.facebook.com/sounderinsight/

Please do us a favor and start your own thread on the GT Audioworks speakers. You’re beating a dead horse here on a thread about Alsyvox. I’m surprised WBF is allowing you to constantly shill your speakers here. I really do question the ethics of a DEALER (and the designer to a lesser extent) shilling his product over a competitor’s product in a thread specifically about a competitor. Be like the designer of Alsyvox who has remained completely silent about his and your speakers on this forum and let his customers do the talking. That’s real class, imho.

 

[dr k]

Actually I find your responses annoying and your last response down right rude.
This is a free country I don’t think your name is Kim Jong Un.
Enjoy your overpriced speakers.

Real class man, real class. You just lost me as a potential customer.

 

[dr k]

If there’s bass integration issues with the Caravaggios I do wonder if having four panel ribbon panels are then ultimately just too hard to absolutely integrate and completely dial in... with large panels the very slightest lack of coherency and integration is just so easy to hear.

Even just just a few millimetre moves when dialling in ribbons are the difference between seamlessness and disconnect and achieving absolute coherency is really the full range ribbon panels greatest accomplishment.

Maybe this could then be an archille’s heel in multi panel models like the Caravaggio and Maggie 30.7s. If there is any sort of bass integration issue in the Caravaggio this would be a definite $300k deal breaker. It’s a deal breaker even at $30k.

Maybe the simpler two panel full range ribbon models have an advantage in this.

Looks like at Munich, they had no issues with integration.

 

[dr k]

I think the definition of ribbon is clamped at the top and bottom and not the sides.

All for sides clamped - planar magnetic panel.

So Apogees are hybrids, as is the Alsyvox I believe.

Build some: https://magnetostatic.com/

I don’t think Alsyvox are hibrids like the Apogees. Apogees, like Alsyvox, use true push-pull ribbons for their midrange and high frequency but use single-ended planar magnetic diver for the woofer. And I think the apogee woofer material is different than the ribbons (I could be wrong). The Alsyvox use push-pull and same material for all its drivers. Both apogee and Alsyvox woofer diaphragms are suspended on all sides, whereas true ribbons are on suspended on top and bottom only. Also the magnets on both apogee and Alsyvox woofers are placed either behind or on both front and back of the diaphragms, respectively, unlike true ribbon midrange and tweeters which have magnets that flank the sides. So both Alsyvox and apogees are not true full range ribbon speakers.

 

[Zero000]

I don’t think Alsyvox are hibrids like the Apogees. Apogees, like Alsyvox, use true push-pull ribbons for their midrange and high frequency and single-ended planar magnetic diver for the woofer. And I think the apogee woofer material is different than the ribbons (I could be wrong). The Alsyvox use push-pull and same material for all its drivers. Both apogee and Alsyvox woofer diaphragms are suspended on all sides, whereas true ribbons are on suspended on top and bottom only. Also the magnets on both apogee and Alsyvox woofers are placed either behind or on both front and back of the diaphragms, respectively, unlike true ribbon midrange and tweeters which have magnets that flank the sides. So both Alsyvox and apogees are not true full range ribbon speakers.

They are both hybrid in the sense that they are not fully ribbons. That's all I meant. To be clear, they are both planar magnetic / ribbon hybrids.

Apogee models for the most part used Kapton for the bass panel and the ribbon driver, as do my Apogees.

There's no question in my mind that Apogees produce greater apparent dynamics than the Alsyvox and I think Kapton is a big factor here. Alsyvox use mylar. I've never heard an electrostatic or planar magnetic (I'm especially thinking Analysis Audio speakers here) using mylar that is as 'snappy' and dynamic as an Apogee.

That said I am still of the opinion that the Alsyvox is a very fine speaker indeed.

The main big sell technically of the Alsyvox is the use of magnets on both sides of the diaphragm. It's more linear than the one side magnet approach of an Apogee bass driver, which pulls more than it can push (as the membrane moves towards the magnets, the field strength gets stronger, as it moves away, it gets weaker).

Another possibility is it is this non-linearity that produces the stronger, more dynamic sound in the Apogee i.e. it is a colouration. It is difficult to be sure, but I suspect this isn't the case, as the mid range / treble genuine ribbon in the Apogee which is linear in magnetic field for both push and pull genuinely sounds very dynamic in its frequency range too.

I am postulating here. I'm not saying I am correct with any authority or 100% degree of certainty. But I know what I hear and have a pretty good understanding of how Apogees are made or should be made (I can think of improvements and am actively still developing mine).

BTW my Apogees are a personal project in conjunction with a refurbisher and not available commercially as a standard product. They do not compete with Alsyvox and if you asked me what I'd rather own I'd take the Alsyvox 4 panel system if available at a reasonable price and I had the space.

Why is that? I'm only using a Duetta Sig based design and the scale of the Alsyvox is simply awesome. Pretty important, but it's also good/convincing in other areas as well.

 

[Steve Williams]

Please do us a favor and start your own thread on the GT Audioworks speakers. You’re beating a dead horse here on a thread about Alsyvox. I’m surprised WBF is allowing you to constantly shill your speakers here. I really do question the ethics of a DEALER (and the designer to a lesser extent) shilling his product over a competitor’s product in a thread specifically about a competitor. Be like the designer of Alsyvox wfacturer bho has remained completely silent about his speakers on this forum and let his customers do the talking. That’s real class, imho.

I agree with this post

I don't know who planarman is or whether he is a speaker manufacturer BUT I completely agree that if this is the case that shilling his product in a thread about another manufacturer's speaker is verboten here at WBF

Planarman, if you read this kindly ceased desist about any further comments regarding the issues I have mentioned

To members reading this, if you see it again, please report the post and the admin team will deal with it

 

[dr k]

I agree with this post

I don't know who planarman is or whether he is a speaker manufacturer BUT I completely agree that if this is the case that shilling his product in a thread about another manufacturer's speaker is verboten here at WBF

Planarman, if you read this kindly ceased desist about any further comments regarding the issues I have mentioned

To members reading this, if you see it again, please report the post and the admin team will deal with it

Thank you for keeping this thread ethical and on track. FYI, planarman is a dealer for GT Audio.

 

[Steve Williams]

Thank you for the follow up

This is a very interesting thread. Sorry I diverted the intent of the thread but several members have reported the issue and I hope my comments have resolved the issue

BTW, name calling serves no purpose either

BTW I do feel that comparing one speaker to another mentioned in a thread is not unreasonable provided they ask the readers if they can compare one to another BUT when a dealer continues to do this in the thread this is indeed shilling and must stop

 

[gwalt]

Thank you for keeping this thread ethical and on track. FYI, planarman is a dealer for GT Audio.

I don't think Planarman/Faxer on AG serves real well of the manufacturer either.......where is he at while this is going on?
You might have a nice product (I don't know and don't care) but your way of marketing it really leaves me cold with the chemistry.

 

[gwalt]

They are both hybrid in the sense that they are not fully ribbons. That's all I meant. To be clear, they are both planar magnetic / ribbon hybrids.

Apogee models for the most part used Kapton for the bass panel and the ribbon driver, as do my Apogees.

There's no question in my mind that Apogees produce greater apparent dynamics than the Alsyvox and I think Kapton is a big factor here. Alsyvox use mylar. I've never heard an electrostatic or planar magnetic (I'm especially thinking Analysis Audio speakers here) using mylar that is as 'snappy' and dynamic as an Apogee.

That said I am still of the opinion that the Alsyvox is a very fine speaker indeed.

The main big sell technically of the Alsyvox is the use of magnets on both sides of the diaphragm. It's more linear than the one side magnet approach of an Apogee bass driver, which pulls more than it can push (as the membrane moves towards the magnets, the field strength gets stronger, as it moves away, it gets weaker).

Another possibility is it is this non-linearity that produces the stronger, more dynamic sound in the Apogee i.e. it is a colouration. It is difficult to be sure, but I suspect this isn't the case, as the mid range / treble genuine ribbon in the Apogee which is linear in magnetic field for both push and pull genuinely sounds very dynamic in its frequency range too.

I am postulating here. I'm not saying I am correct with any authority or 100% degree of certainty. But I know what I hear and have a pretty good understanding of how Apogees are made or should be made (I can think of improvements and am actively still developing mine).

BTW my Apogees are a personal project in conjunction with a refurbisher and not available commercially as a standard product. They do not compete with Alsyvox and if you asked me what I'd rather own I'd take the Alsyvox 4 panel system if available at a reasonable price and I had the space.

Why is that? I'm only using a Duetta Sig based design and the scale of the Alsyvox is simply awesome. Pretty important, but it's also good/convincing in other areas as well.

Boy I could never make any claims like this unless I heard each speaker side by side in the same room environment with similar electronics......in the end I still feel the Alsyvox is break-through with its efficiency rating and ease of drive.

 

[Bodhi]

I hope this thread doesn't become the GT Audio Works killing fields....

 

[Zero000]

Boy I could never make any claims like this unless I heard each speaker side by side in the same room environment with similar electronics......in the end I still feel the Alsyvox is break-through with its efficiency rating and ease of drive.

Really? I've lived with Apogees for 7 years now and I know what they do. Christoph probably longer than me, so I'm confused as to why he liked your post.

Its pretty simple, really. Its easy to hear differences in dynamics between speakers and remember it I reckon. Compare a lifeless Quad 63 with all the dynamics of a squashed slug against a well driven Wilson or Avant Garde horn and you don't forget quickly.

It's not a breakthrough in efficiency but it is good. Neodymium Apogees have been made way before Alsyvox. Goggle Apogee Synergy and see what you get.

Planars aren't rocket science. They are fairly simple things. There are no miracles in Apogees or Alsyvox speakers.

 

[dr k]

I hope this thread doesn't become the GT Audio Works killing fields....

GT Audio Works don't need our help. They did it to themselves.

 

[Zero000]

gwalt you seem to think I am knocking the Alsyvox in this thread but I am not. I think its a great speaker.

But irrespective of cost all speaker systems have compromises. NOTHING wins in all aspects.

 

[gwalt]

gwalt you seem to think I am knocking the Alsyvox in this thread but I am not. I think its a great speaker.

But irrespective of cost all speaker systems have compromises. NOTHING wins in all aspects.

user....I respect your opinion as the hobby garners many and wasn't thinking you were knocking the Alsyvox. I am just saying that Daniele has owned the Apogee's also (he designed this speaker to best it in all areas but only you can decide if it does)......I have never owned Apogees but heard several over the years including the modded ones from Las Vegas.
I will still stand behind my post as I would want to compare the speakers in question under the same conditions, electronics and room before knowing exactly the differences.......not just planars but any speaker to really determine it's likeness or weaknesses in comparison to what I heard. Heck I owned the Avantgardes and Edgarhorns and dynamics depended on the driving amplifier in most cases......but the edgarhorns won hands down in musicality that was important to me and this was in my room to compare. The edgarhorns were at home with a 45 SET but not the Avantgardes etc.You heard the Alsyvox in a Munich showroom and not your room under the same conditions is all I was saying.
I wished there were more of these type speakers at shows to compare but there is not so we have to move in the direction of past experiences, likenesses and price points etc.
No worries on my part.

 

[Ron Resnick]

. . .
Speakers like my Acoustats, STAX and Apogees were all amazing with vocals...especially the STAX with a big tube amp (they somehow loved 100 watts of EL34 juice) was gobsmacking this way. My Acoustat 1+1 (upgraded with medallion transformers and foil caps) with Silvaweld OTLs was almost too real to believe with vocals or solo instruments...if I could stand the issues with the OTLs (heat, reliability) I might never have moved on from there. The Spectra 2200s + Spectra 4400s (as subs) with SET were nearly as transparent but could handle bigger music better.

What the good horns do is add the dynamic realism that goes the next step in realism overall. I still have a soft spot for the STAX + 100 watt EL34 juice (there were some tracks that sounded positively surround sound in holography) or my Audiostatics or Acoustats. I miss the Apogees less and don't really miss the big Infinity IRS Betas at all.

. . .

Overall though my current speakers are the best for what I value in terms of lifelike sound with low coloration. They may not be the best in all categories compared to some shockingly good systems I had in the past but counter with greater strengths elsewhere...and they are not gigantic like the Acoustats.

Very interesting. Thank you.

PS: I agree on the EL34. Among higher power push-pull tube amps I think EL34 is a special tube for midrange and vocals. That is why I like the VTL MB-185 with EL34s.

 

[morricab]

Very interesting. Thank you.

PS: I agree on the EL34. Among higher power push-pull tube amps I think EL34 is a special tube for midrange and vocals. That is why I like the VTL MB-185 with EL34s.

I have this SEP with one eL34 per channel that sounds quite nice in my second system. Sweet midrange as you have commented on but not as inner revealing as my Genus or JJ...of course it cost a fraction of those. Would be interesting to see what could be done in an all out attempt with the tube single ended.